New Studio (Rehabed Garage)...a few quick questions

[mark4man]

Hello again...

I'm finally there...& now plan on creating a Recording Studio by increasing the size of my garage (presently 14' X 22'')...knocking down one wall & opening it up into a 25' X 22' space [primarily because I would be embarrassed asking clients to record in a 14' X 22' room...don't know why...except for the fact that...even tho a recording made in a phone booth can be made to sound like it was recorded in the Taj Mahal...it's my contention that musicians just like a larger room...makes them feel like they're getting their money's worth, or something.]

(Not that 25' X 22' is all that big)...but...anyway...a few quick questions:

1) The walls are currently cinder block. I plan on sheet-rocking those, obviously. My wife makes really beautiful quilts; & wants to adorn the walls with them. Is this suitable sound deadening / frequency trap material...or should I be thinking about other methods/materials for finishing off the interior walls?

2) How are mic cables connected through the control room wall? Do they plug into some sort of AES/EBU faceplate framed into the wall (to then be patched to the console?) If so...that seems like an extra connection to me. Can a slot be framed into the control room wall whereby (through careful planning) the back of the console is slid in & positioned flush w/ the studio side of that wall?

3) Speaking of consoles...is Mackie a good board (what w/ their new Onyx preamps)...or should I go w/an Allen & Heath or an SSL...something along those lines? I obviously want the best quality sound I can deliver; & the board's output will be feeding a pair of Lynx Aurora 8's as a Native DAW front end...but w/ a room that size, the most channels I'll ever need is 24.

Thanks very much...any expertise will be duly appreciated.


mark4man

[chamelious]

Originally Posted by mark4man

Hello again...

I'm finally there...& now plan on creating a Recording Studio by increasing the size of my garage (presently 14' X 22'')...knocking down one wall & opening it up into a 25' X 22' space [primarily because I would be embarrassed asking clients to record in a 14' X 22' room...don't know why...except for the fact that...even tho a recording made in a phone booth can be made to sound like it was recorded in the Taj Mahal...it's my contention that musicians just like a larger room...makes them feel like they're getting their money's worth, or something.]

(Not that 25' X 22' is all that big)...but...anyway...a few quick questions:

1) The walls are currently cinder block. I plan on sheet-rocking those, obviously. My wife makes really beautiful quilts; & wants to adorn the walls with them. Is this suitable sound deadening / frequency trap material...or should I be thinking about other methods/materials for finishing off the interior walls?

2) How are mic cables connected through the control room wall? Do they plug into some sort of AES/EBU faceplate framed into the wall (to then be patched to the console?) If so...that seems like an extra connection to me. Can a slot be framed into the control room wall whereby (through careful planning) the back of the console is slid in & positioned flush w/ the studio side of that wall?

3) Speaking of consoles...is Mackie a good board (what w/ their new Onyx preamps)...or should I go w/an Allen & Heath or an SSL...something along those lines? I obviously want the best quality sound I can deliver; & the board's output will be feeding a pair of Lynx Aurora 8's as a Native DAW front end...but w/ a room that size, the most channels I'll ever need is 24.

Thanks very much...any expertise will be duly appreciated.


mark4man

In answer to 1, quilts probably aren't your best options for a number of reasons. As people more knowledgeable will tell you, your primary concern is broadband absorbtion, you need to deal with bass frequencys, quilts wont do that and they won't look proffessional either.

As a side point are you talking about treatment for your live room, controll room or both?

As for question 2, the convention is all the cables you'll ever use come out of your desk and into a patch panel in the live room. Otherwise you'd have to either leave 24+ cables lying around in your live room?

Question 3 is very vague and it doesn't sound like you've done your research, you mention a few brand names, but what are you looking for? A lot more comes into play than the number of channels a desk has. Are you using outboard processing etc. Whats your current desk...

Someone will be more helpful than me im sure but hope this gets things started.

Chamelious.

[mark4man]

are you talking about treatment for your live room, control room or both?

Live

Question 3 is very vague and it doesn't sound like you've done your research

Please do not condescend toward me...my first (research) step is to come here & tap into the practical experience of the members. I've given everything anyone needs to go on...audio interface quality...DAW integration type...maximum # of channels needed...size of room...the fact that I'm looking for quality premplification in the board... Jeeziz Christ.

[stealth_prod]

As far as the mic cables going from room to room, I remember a while back seeing a outlet of sorts built right into the wall between the rooms. I think its called a wall plate. This could let you snake in your live room to the control room without letting to much sound escape. If I see one online I will post a link. Hope that helped at all. Good luck

[chamelious]

Originally Posted by mark4man

Live

Please do not condescend toward me...my first (research) step is to come here & tap into the practical experience of the members. I've given everything anyone needs to go on...audio interface quality...DAW integration type...maximum # of channels needed...size of room...the fact that I'm looking for quality premplification in the board... Jeeziz Christ.

Most people will expect you to know a bit more than this before you start asking for such detailed answers. For example you haven't mentioned budget once; and the first response you've got you haven't been appreciative, and even slightly hostile towards what you assumed was me talking down at you, but wasn't.

So you were talking about your live room, is it a particularly bad sounding room? Usually people start by treating the control room, unless you've already done or started with this? If not, i'd start here.

And ok so you mentioned you need 24 channels again but you didn't mention whether your processing will be outboard or in your DAW?

[mark4man]

Thanks, Stealth_Prod

MF

[MessianicDreams]

Originally Posted by mark4man

1) The walls are currently cinder block. I plan on sheet-rocking those, obviously. My wife makes really beautiful quilts; & wants to adorn the walls with them. Is this suitable sound deadening / frequency trap material...or should I be thinking about other methods/materials for finishing off the interior walls?

Blankets would only provide HF absorbtion - you'll want to insure that you have enough broadband absorbtion to go along with this. Personally, I don't think they should be used as frequency control; broadband absorbers are fairly easy to build and if you're prepared to put in the effort they can look quite pro.

Here's a thread showing how I built my broadband absorbers - to be honest I rushed the build of them because they needed to be ready for a mix project, so they can be made much nicer. These are an example of what you can do if you want to take the time - unfortunately I didn't take any pics of the build. They had a wood backing on them so they could be turned around and used as panel absorbers. Using a picture hanging system you can move these around (or remove them!) and really tailor the acoustics of the room - this is of course provided that you have a nice sounding room!

There are a few tools out there on the web where you can enter your room details and it will predict the frequency response of your room - allowing you to properly treat each problematic area. THere are also tools for calculating the RT60 of your room which are very practical.

Originally Posted by mark4man

2) How are mic cables connected through the control room wall? Do they plug into some sort of AES/EBU faceplate framed into the wall (to then be patched to the console?)

Generally there is a facility panel in the wall of the live room and another in the control room with "point-to-point" connection - think of this simply as a "snake" or "stage box". In the control room, you then connect the desk mic inputs to the outputes on the facility panel. If you go this route consider other things apart from mics that you might want to send/receive - often 1/4" jack connectors are also included, as well as foldback systems.

There is also another way of completing this set up depending on what equipment you have/plan on getting. Instead of going straight from the facility panel in the control room to the desk, you go via a patch bay - this allows for a very simple way of using external pres. Patch bays are also useful if you use/plan on using outboard gear - EQs, dynamics etc.

Originally Posted by mark4man

3) Speaking of consoles...is Mackie a good board (what w/ their new Onyx preamps)...or should I go w/an Allen & Heath or an SSL...something along those lines? I obviously want the best quality sound I can deliver; & the board's output will be feeding a pair of Lynx Aurora 8's as a Native DAW front end...but w/ a room that size, the most channels I'll ever need is 24.

You're meantioning Mackie and SSL in the same sentence - I think you need to decide on a budget!

[mark4man]

MessianicDreams...

Thanks very much for all that...very informative & very much appreciated.

To tell the truth...I had some semblance of an idea as to what the wall quilts would trap...along w/ the aesthetic consideration; & perhaps corner traps for bass. But you're right...it should be broadband that are used.

I mentioned Mackie & SSL (as a range) because...what I'm looking for are pres that are quiet, transparent & open...good quality components in the strip itself (EQ, compression, etc.)...& either a meter bridge or tall/quality LED's. If I can get there without dropping a ton of cash...I'll do it. if I have to spring for $5900 for a GL3800 to get there...I'll do that (along w/ some major griping & moaning to boot). & I was also naive in that, I didn't realize the AWS 900+ was 50 grand (or at least I could have sworn I saw one for 50 G's on ebay yesterday, I believe).

Thanks again,

MF

[Dani Pace]

Where did you get the idea that musicians like bigger rooms? Strictly from a musician's point of view, most of us would rather record in a medium size room that sounds good, rather than a huge room with poor acoustics. I don't want to sound like I'm bashing you but equating room size and quality sound is just plain dumb. We feel we got our money's worth when we hear good tracks played back, reguardless of the size of the room they were recorded in. BTW 22 X 25 is getting cloce to a square room, and square rooms need extra treatment to sound good reguardless of size. Maybe some musicians who think they need to play at concert volume all the time need more room but I don't think most of us need that kind of space. Bigger is not always better.

[BushmasterM4]

I've got a 30 x 30 x 10 room and it sounds very nice. It does have a few angles on the facing wall, so its not quite square. But to say a square room will not sound good is false. And mine is pretty much untreated, except for a few canvas paintings. But, if you find your sound is not ideal in the room, then panels will help.

As far as cables go. I have (2) 16 channel snakes. I was going to go the whole run the cables through the walls, but my option works well for me. I put the snake boxes on the floor against the back wall and I ran the trunk line across the floor. I run the end through a small hole in the control room wall. The two snake cables are covered with a throw rug if needed, no biggie. Saved time and money and works great.

I also have a Mackie Onyx 1640 mixer with the firewire card. While you cant use the mixers faders during the mixing process (you mix with your DAW), it offers alot of other benefits. For $1700 you get 16 premium Onyx preamps. And I mean 16 xlr/trs connections. None of this bull shit where the say 12 or 16 and you really get 4 or 8 xlr/trs inputs and the rest are other audio inputs (like rca and such). I also have my mixer set up to feed 6 live room headphone mixes to musicians for monitoring. These 6 feeds are run off the 6aux feeds and each channel is fully adjustable to each performers taiste. It also controls feeds to speakers in the live room and control room. I have tape decks, turntables, etc.. hooked to it. So there is alot it can do a standard firepod type unit cant. Plus I can take it one the road and record a band live !!!

[mark4man]

I don't want to sound like I'm bashing you but equating room size and quality sound is just plain dumb

Tell me where I ever said that, Dani. I mentioned that I felt it made musicians perhaps feel like they’re getting their money’s worth. Besides...if you do want to talk quality vis-a-vis size...look at all the famous studios from the 60's...they're all huge. Ray Charles jumped Atlantic & went w/ ABC Dunhill in part because he loved their Studio A...which was downright cavernous. There's nothing wrong w/ the natural ambience & echo associated w/ a good size room. We're all so used to comping to get the best track from a super controlled sterile environment...(then turning around to add artificial space/reflections)...that we forget about recording the almost perfect take by a musician who's comfortable in a nice room w/ it's own space & reflection characteristics...seems to me.

BushMasterM4...

Thanks. How are the Onyx pres? Are they transparent or do they have a signature sound? Are they 1/1 xformer coupled?

Thanks again,


mark4man

[BushmasterM4]

Very clean. Most audio magazines rate them among the best.

[mark4man]

you know...??? some of you guys were right...I hadn't done my homework. (Well...at least I'm humble enough to admit it, for once).

So here's what I should have made more clear...what I need as outputs. Didn't realize this 'till I was looking at the Mackie 2480 & the 24-4...whereby the major analog outs are a stereo pair only.

Whatever I use as a board will need to have 8 analog outputs...because I'm feeding a Lynx Aurora 8 (as a front end to the DAW).

I was looking at the blocks for the two boards mentioned; & realized that if I used the d-sub direct outs, they're tapped pre EQ & channel fader. If I used the aux outs...they have their own little send vol. knob...which can be roatated to the max postion...but that's a cheap-ass component (pot) at the end of the signal chain (pre matrixing/summing, but post really nice Panasonic 100mm Faders & Perkins 4-band EQ)...feeding a quality piece like the Aurora.

So that's what I need...multiple audio outs, post fader. Don't even know if there is such an animal.

Thanks,

mark4man

[Dani Pace]

[QUOTE=mark4man;2976095]Tell me where I ever said that, Dani. I mentioned that I felt it made musicians perhaps feel like they’re getting their money’s worth.

Sorry if I sounded like I was taking a stab at you, I was refering to musicians who think that way. They are usualy the same ones who also think... Louder is better, more intensity means faster, gain always has to be set to 11, and other popular misconceptions.

I didn't mean square rooms can't sound good either. They just tend to have more reflection issues, nothing the right room treatment can't fix. Some rooms have that natural ambience that makes them work better than others, I think the construction has as much affect as the room size and shape.

Your studio is your environment. Make it sound as good as possible and the artists you record will be happy with the end results, unless they are poor musicians... There isn't much you can do to fix that problem.

[talontsiawd]

Originally Posted by mark4man

Whatever I use as a board will need to have 8 analog outputs...because I'm feeding a Lynx Aurora 8 (as a front end to the DAW).

The only advantage i see in the Mackie in the price range that going to really seperate it is the fact it has a firewire card that lets you use the outputs individually. Which would obviously replace the Lynx Aurora 8.


I think people would have a much easier time answering your questions with some what of a budget or if you are unsure, how much price can vary amoung certain things. To be honest, for something you plan to change for, i would hope you have a beter idea than you are letting on. Or just say you don't know. I'm not trying to be mean, your answers lead me to more questions and i'm obviously not the only one.