Epi Les Paul Standard Upgrades- What Should I Do, Beyond New Pups?

[stevieb]

Okay, so I bought an Epi LP Standard. Black with ivory bindings/pickguard/etc. I am very pleased with it's looks, the action is good, even the neck shape seems to encourage me to keep my thumb where it belongs, on the back of the neck. It acutally has a decent tone, too- but I scored a pair of Burst Bucker Pros yesterday, at a very nice price, so I am gonna upgrade.

What else should I do, while I have my soldering iron hot? I would think that "pots is pots:" as long as they are not noisy or such, no need to change them? Are there any "capicator" upgrades that are really worth the time and trouble to do? Anything else?

I have a Westone Thunder 1A that I love, and it's active circuitry is fully functional- so I don't think I want to go to the trouble or expense of putting an active circuit in this guitar- but if someone knows of one that is truly just the bee's knees, I'm listening. I've dreamed of finding a 1A on ebay that was totally trashed except for the electronics, that could be had for a song- I'd put the 1A circuitry in a 'Paul and have the looks of the Paul plus the versitility of the Westone. Yeah, I know, dream on...

I've also got a set of Gibson Chime-head replacement tuners- bought cheap when Mars Music was going out of business- would they be an upgrade from the Grovers (branded) tuners on the Epi? I don't think I would change them just for the chime-heads, but if the chimes are better, I'd do it.

Thanks.

[juniorspecial]

You might as well put good capacitors in there while you're at it. The caps in there should have a value of .22uf, if I'm not mistaken. Going to a lower value, like .1uf will probably give your tone controls a bit more useful range.

Lots of people prefer linear taper pots to the audio taper ones common to most guitars. Good pots don't cost much, and the ones in there are probably pretty dodgy; you might as well upgrade everything. I don't see the sense in putting in $250 worth of pickups, and leaving the rest of the signal chain sub-par.

[JCH]

I bought an Epi Les Paul Studio recently. I replaced all of the electronics with CTS, and switchcraft stuff. Kits are available to do this. The original parts aren't very good.

An aluminum tailpiece might help your tone. The original on my studio was zinc. I threw it away. I also replaced the plastic nut with graphite.

I really like the guitar. They're a pretty good deal for the money.

[Corndog]

Ditch the 3 way p/u switch and get a Switchcraft. Get a better TOM while yer at it. I like those guitars. Well built fer the $$$.

[stevieb]

Originally Posted by Corndog

Ditch the 3 way p/u switch and get a Switchcraft. Get a better TOM while yer at it. I like those guitars. Well built fer the $$$.

Thanks. Some refinment questions of suggestions made:

How is a Switchcraft 3-way switch better?

I've read about the diff's between linear and audio taper pots, but don't remember what they are. Please elaborate.

I would think a heavier, denser (zinc) bridge and/or tailpiece would produce better tone than a lighter (aluminum) one? Or is it that zinc is more porus? Would brass be better than either? (It would need to be chrome plated for appearance reasons, for me.)

I already have these two parts: from Allparts, a "GB-2503-010 Economy Chrome Tunematic," and from Mars, M2500 3 pos Toggle Switch." Any chance these are upgrades masquerading as economy parts?

And what the heck is a "TOM?"

[Corndog]

TOM= Tune-o-matic Gibson bridge.

The Epi switches fail surprisingly quickly. I use to werk at a music store in Ottawa and we had a kid who would bring his guitar in twice a month to have it replaced. He just wouldn't buck up fer a Switchcraft. He wanted all Epi parts to keep it "original".

[JCH]

Originally Posted by stevieb

Thanks. I would think a heavier, denser (zinc) bridge and/or tailpiece would produce better tone than a lighter (aluminum) one? Or is it that zinc is more porus? Would brass be better than either? (It would need to be chrome plated for appearance reasons, for me.)

The custom shop LP's have aluminum tail stops just like the originals. They're available in any finish.

[goldtopchas]

I'm pretty sure Lp tailpieces are nickel plated brass. I don't see where aluminum would have any place in guitar hardware.

[lpdeluxe]

Originally Posted by goldtopchas

I'm pretty sure Lp tailpieces are nickel plated brass. I don't see where aluminum would have any place in guitar hardware.

Gibson's been using aluminum tail pieces for years. There's a video on Youtube showing how Gibson duplicated Eric Clapton's '64 ES-335 and it has an aluminum tail piece.

A lot of Bigsbys are aluminum, also.

[Light]

If you are going to replace the pickups, you should replace all the electronics. Epi's have crap for electronics. In particular, you should change the switch and the jack, but the pots suck too so get rid of them. The one thing I wouldn't put too much thought into is the caps. Contrary to what you will read on the internet, there is no perceptible difference between caps. Particularly in a guitar, where the cap is doing nothing more than passing some highs to ground. If you want to get some polyester film caps, fine, but don't stress about it, and don't go spending 10-20 on caps. The ones I sell go for $1.25, and at that my mark up is just sick (but it is normal for repair shops to do so with caps - the guy I used to take my amps to sold the same caps for $2.50). If anyone tries to sell you a cap for more than that, laugh at them.

But the mechanical stuff in an Epi will wear out pretty quick, so if you are in there already new pots, a new switch and a new jack are absolutely in order. May as well do it now, or you're going to have to do it a year from now (if that long).

Other than that, play the damn thing.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

[NL5]

Originally Posted by JCH

I bought an Epi Les Paul Studio recently. I replaced all of the electronics with CTS, and switchcraft stuff. Kits are available to do this. The original parts aren't very good.

Anybody have a link to the replacement kits?

[Corndog]

Search Stewart MacDonald Guitar Shop Supply.

Oh and, guitar tone caps are .047uf or .05uf.[micro farad] as far as I know.

[Light]

Originally Posted by juniorspecial

You might as well put good capacitors in there while you're at it. The caps in there should have a value of .22uf, if I'm not mistaken. Going to a lower value, like .1uf will probably give your tone controls a bit more useful range.

Lots of people prefer linear taper pots to the audio taper ones common to most guitars. Good pots don't cost much, and the ones in there are probably pretty dodgy; you might as well upgrade everything. I don't see the sense in putting in $250 worth of pickups, and leaving the rest of the signal chain sub-par.

The caps in a Les Paul are usually .047uF. The caps in a Strat are normally .022uF. A .1uF would be a LARGER value cap.

Nobody prefers linear taper pots for volume controls, because they suck for volume. Humans perceive volume logarithmically, which is why we use pots with a logarithmic taper. There are some slight variations in audio pots, but none of the alternatives that I know of will fit in a Les Paul (the top requires a pot with a longer bushing). Now, tone pots are another issue. There are people who prefer linear taper pots for tone controls (I'm not one of them).

But your right about one thing, the pots in an Epi suck and should absolutely be replaced.

Originally Posted by goldtopchas

I'm pretty sure Lp tailpieces are nickel plated brass. I don't see where aluminum would have any place in guitar hardware.

Some people think the lighter weight helps with the transference of energy. I can't say that I've noticed it making a huge difference. I think it is far more important for the part to be solidly connected than for it to be made of aluminum. It's a "upgrade" I don't suggest. The bridge/tailpiece on an Epi are fine. They aren't great, but they are fine. Until you have a problem, leave them be.

Originally Posted by stevieb

How is a Switchcraft 3-way switch better?

It is better designed, and better made. They don't fail nearly as fast.

Originally Posted by stevieb

I've read about the diff's between linear and audio taper pots, but don't remember what they are. Please elaborate.

With a linear pot, there is a one to one relation ship between the position of the pot and the amount of resistance between the wipper and the terminals. On a audio taper pot, there is a logarithmic relationship (i.e., there is less of a difference in the resistance between 1 and 2 than between 9 and 10). Human ears hear volume changes logarithmically, so Audio taper pots work much better for volume controls, as you get a smoother volume change.

Originally Posted by stevieb

I already have these two parts: from Allparts, a "GB-2503-010 Economy Chrome Tunematic," and from Mars, M2500 3 pos Toggle Switch." Any chance these are upgrades masquerading as economy parts?

No.

The word "Economy" should act as a clue here. Good stuff costs money - that's just the way the world works. The materials are more expensive, and the labor is more difficult, so the part costs more.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

[stevieb]

Thanks for all the adivse, will keep it in mind. Tonite I changed the pups only- I like to make changes one at a time, so I know what did what. Forgot about that policy of mine.

Also did a couple of small repairs the Thunder 1A needed, and finally replaced the 3-way switch on my 1968 Telestar Hollowbody. Then I plugged "Lisa" into the Monkey-Wards Model 6000 amp (replacement for another M6K, also from 1968) and played some songs from my youth.

Ah, nostalga!

[Gear_Junky]

Of course, you might like to get a couple of push-pull pots (it's a pot with piggy-backed switch) which will let you coil-split the humbuckers (if they have the leads) and the 2nd push-pull could be wired to throw the 2 humbuckers out of phase with each other in the middle position.

This gives you more sound combos without loosing "stock" sounds.

You will never miss a strat again (I don't).

[stevieb]

The pups don't have extra leads for splitting, G-J.

I hear what you mean about never missing a strat, tho. about nine years ago, I found my first Westone in a pawn shop in New Orleans. The Thunder 1A has two 'buckers, mini-switchable active circuitry for sustain, active and passive tone controls, a coil splitter mini-switch and a phase mini-switch. Talk about tone combos! At the time, I had purchased a beautiful Epi 'Paul at Guitar Center, and they had a 30-day return policy. The Epi went back, as the Westone has all those tone possibilities, a unique look, and cost $110 instead of $500! Since then, I have scored another Westone for $70 (H-S-S setup, with push-pull split and phase), passed on a third, and scored a Westbury with H-H setup (but no split or phase.)

But I do have a strat, with a hard tail (the HSS westone and the Westbury both have whammy's) and a very Tele-like tone (Teletone? "Hey, somebody answer the teletone...") from the bridge pup.

Heck, I have access to so many different tones, I can not keep track of them all!

[Gear_Junky]

personally I have nothing against strats/teles, I'm just not a "strat person" - I suspect it's due to hand size and scale lengths. A les-paul type guitar, and also archtops, just feel comfier to me. and I also like visual aesthetics of them better.

bummer on pickup leads. You can still do the phase-reversal switch, though.

I also shielded mine. I know that humbuckers don't suffer from hum too much, plus my GFS Dream 180's are shielded and extra quiet, even in single-coil mode, but I just liked the idea. It's dead quiet. in any mode.

[stevieb]

I am a happy man: Bought the Epi LesPaul on ebay, cost me $290 with shipping, and included a coffin case and a little Fender 15-watt amp. I already had both a case for the guitar, and another Fender 15-watter, plus other amps, so I sold both. Then I bought the pups. Here's how it shook out:

Case, from a done garage sale- FREE
Epi Les Paul, amp and coffin case -$290.00
Sold coffin case + $30.00
Sold little amp + $40.00
Bought Burstbucker Pups -$80.00
TOTAL NET COST $300.00

Yeah, I'd be happier with that '68 GIBSON LesPaul I stared at, at a vintage guitar shop in Seattle, in '99, the one I couldda had for $600- but it's long gone.

[Light]

Originally Posted by Corndog

Search Stewart MacDonald Guitar Shop Supply.

Oh and, guitar tone caps are .047uf or .05uf.[micro farad] as far as I know.

Stew-Mac's pots are problematic, at best. I'd advise against them. It's not that they're bad, but they are not as good as a CTS, and the shafts are the wrong size for most knobs.

Don't bother with a "kit", just go to your local guitar shop - they will probably have what you need. You need four 500k long shaft pots, a good quality switch, and a good quality (i.e., switchcraft) jack. You can use the wire that is in the guitar (if it follows standard Epi practice, their will be plenty of it in there), and if you want you can reuse the caps as well. If you do want to buy new caps, you need two .047μF caps.

Oh yeah, and don't use plumbing solder. I can't figure out how anyone could miss that one, but they do.



Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

[Milnoque]

Light said it doesn't matter what kind of capacitors you use and for the most part I agree with him. It doesn't make very much difference. However, maybe it's in my head, but I avoid ceramic disk caps because I believe I hear a difference. YMMV. I do agree strongly that you shouldn't fall for the hype about boutique oil/paper caps. Inexpensive polyester caps sound just as good. The mf rating on capacitors is not very accurate, It's just a ballpark figure for most manufacturers. That doesn't matter either. As long as it's in the ballpark it'll sound the same.

I also find I prefer values lower than stock Gibsons use. .022 seems to give me a more useful tonal range. JMHO

[Gear_Junky]

just curious about jacks. now, switches/pots I understand - moving parts are involved, etc.

a jack doesn't have any moving parts and it's really just 2 contacts separated by layers of pcb-board type stuff.

why would it matter?

I understand that one factor is tightness - how well it latches on to a cable plug.

[zazz]

when i first saw the title of this thread my first thought was machine heads...but i did a quick thread search for setup and it came up with a zero....


so thats it ...everyone knows the rule....when you buy an epi then you spend at least 100usd getting a setup...fret dressing ..stuff like that.

[Light]

Originally Posted by Gear_Junky

just curious about jacks. now, switches/pots I understand - moving parts are involved, etc.

a jack doesn't have any moving parts and it's really just 2 contacts separated by layers of pcb-board type stuff.

why would it matter?

I understand that one factor is tightness - how well it latches on to a cable plug.

The cheap jacks used by most Asian manufacturers in cheap guitars (all Epiphones) are made of a very light gauge and cheap metal. Also, the geometry of the design makes it very easy for metal fatigue to cause them to make intermittent contact. A good jack is made of a much heavier gauge of steel, and is designed to combat the stress of constant plugging and unplugging.

I was going to put up some pictures of this, but I can't find any of a cheap jack right now. It's enough to say that a good Switchcraft jack will last you years longer than a cheap POS jack.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

[Light]

Here you go. The one on the left is a cheap POS, the one on the right is a good Switchcraft #11 (the one you want). It's hard to see what I'm talking about as far as the gauge of the metal, but you can see the shape of the tip connection. The Switchcraft spreads the stress of plugging in out over a much larger area of the piece. With the cheap jack, it all gets concentrated right at the more than 90 degree bend at the bottom. These things fail as fast as you can say POS. The Switchcraft ones will get loose over time, but you can bend them back ("retension" in geek speak) for decades before they fail. You can't bend the cheap ones back.

Also, look at the solder terminals. The Switchcraft ones are much easier to deal with.



Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

[stevieb]

Changed the tuners today. Took Grovers off, put Grovers on. New ones were "Gibson Genuine Replacement Parts," I got really cheap when Mars went out of business. Yep, been sitting on them all these years. Only difference I could asertain was the news have bell-shaped heads on 'em, other than that, they look, feel, move, weigh, smell and taste the same.

Anybody wanna buy them from me?