VS 1680/4-Track analog...?

[ouija]

I recently have come to the conclusion that there is no easier way to get a good sound than to go analog. I've been using the Roland VS-1680 for some time now and although I'm happy with the machine, I've just noticed something that really bothers me.

If I take a percussion instrument, for example, and record it into a 4-Track using a direct mic line and then use the same set up to record it into the Roland the 4-Track sounds MUCH better!! It's way warmer, the sound is much bigger, and it sounds more pleasing to the ear in general. At least in my opinion.

But if you use the monitor outs from the 4-Track and record this into the Roland guess what? It sounds JUST like the 4-Track recorder if not better!

So, based on this, I was wondering if any of you could give me some tips on what I need to do to get away from analog all together. Am I missing some vital piece of equipment in my signal chain that duplicates the signal to tape warmth and bigness of analog in the digital domain?

There is nothing more frusterating than spending $4,000 - 5,000 in a DAW, CD Burner, outboard compressors, pre amps, and then just when you think your finally getting the sound your looking for, you plug a direct mic line into your old $300.00 4-Track and are reminded that the sound was right all along on your old analog recorder!

Can someone tell me what I'm missing here?

[toad_uk]

Even the big guys, e.g. Pink Floyd used digital but still record somethings like drums and vocals using analogue.

[Blue Bear Sound]

It's less about the gear, and more about experience and technique....

In this case you didn't mention what kind of analog 4-track you were talking about.... a professional 2 or 4-track (Studer, Otari) will sound *scads* better than an inexpensive digital multitrack.... the converters at the low-end of the digital gear scale are pretty "budget-oriented" (read "prone to harshness"), not to mention the generally low-quality pres on the "all-in-one" units.

But even so, between personal multi-track units, digital units have much more potential for capturing more of the signal than its analog equivalent (in the PortaStudio vein), so I don't think you can simply attribute the difference you're hearing to digital vs analog gear... it's which sounds better - low grade pres or low grade pres/converters, each captured to their respective media.

Bruce

[ouija]

Originally posted by Blue Bear Sound
It's less about the gear, and more about experience and technique....

In this case you didn't mention what kind of analog 4-track you were talking about.... a professional 2 or 4-track (Studer, Otari) will sound *scads* better than an inexpensive digital multitrack.... the converters at the low-end of the digital gear scale are pretty "budget-oriented" (read "prone to harshness"), not to mention the generally low-quality pres on the "all-in-one" units.

But even so, between personal multi-track units, digital units have much more potential for capturing more of the signal than its analog equivalent (in the PortaStudio vein), so I don't think you can simply attribute the difference you're hearing to digital vs analog gear... it's which sounds better - low grade pres or low grade pres/converters, each captured to their respective media.

Bruce

Yes, I agree. What I love about the Roland is that the sound you put in, you get out. So based on this comparison between the two units, I'm thinking that I prefer the way analog colors a recorded signal where the digital converters may not be coloring the sound at all. Does this make sense? Because when I put the track I had recorded onto analog (it was a Tascam unit) into the Roland, the digital playback sounded exactly like the track sounded coming from the analog tape.

Okay, I guess this is an obvious observation for some, but I havent gone back to listen to analog for about a year and had forgotten how nice the sound was.

The bottom line for me is that if digital is NOT coloring the input signal, then I prefer the coloration and tape saturation of analog to the non coloration of digital on a D/I source.

I'd love to get an Otari 2" for recording and then dump the tracks onto the DAW for editing/bouncing, but because of the cost, it's just out of the question for me.

It's two bad that no one has thought of a way to sink multiple 4 track units together so that you can make them all start recording at the same time (at least I havent heard of a way to do this) because you could piece together a 16, 24, etc. track analog recorder for relatively cheap and still be able to feed those tracks to a DAW and have the best of both worlds.

Oh well.

Originally posted by toad_uk
Even the big guys, e.g. Pink Floyd used digital but still record somethings like drums and vocals using analogue.

Accoustic drums is the one instrument that I think if at all possible should always be recorded on analog. Most of the big studio's still use really nice analog gear and you can hear the difference!

Thanks for the responses!!

[Blue Bear Sound]

But I suspect the Roland converters ARE coloring the signals by being inaccurate and harsh.... and your 4-track is coloring the signal too, but in a less obvious way to your ears.

Get some good pres and good A/D converters going and you will see how good digital is.

Bruce

[ouija]

Originally posted by Blue Bear Sound
But I suspect the Roland converters ARE coloring the signals by being inaccurate and harsh.... and your 4-track is coloring the signal too, but in a less obvious way to your ears.

Get some good pres and good A/D converters going and you will see how good digital is.

Bruce

Any suggestions on a good pre and/or A/D converter? I have a number of units, but here is a list of what counts as far as sound is concerned:

Mackie 1604 VLZ Pro
Roland VS-1680 w/CD burner
Behringer Compressor/Limiter
Monster Pro 500 series cabling
A Marshall condensor mic (yes, I got suckered into this one)
Audix mics for drums and percussion (D4's, D3's, D2's, etc.)

I still need to invest in some really good mics (I'm picking up a Rode NTK this week hopefully to start with) and the Pre's in the Mackie are good but not good enough to give me the BIG sound I'm looking for. I'm in 3 bands doing everything from soft accoustic type music to heavy rock.

I've been eye-balling a Drawmer 1960 Vaccum Tube Pre and an Avalon M5. I haven't looked into any A/D converters so I've no clue there.

Any suggestions would be great!