Outboard Gear? Is it necessary?

[Guitar4life0000]

This may sound a tad stupid, but keep in mind that I'm fairly new to this.


With all the built in plug-ins in todays software including compression, EQ, reverb, tuners, etc, is it necessary to get external signal processors, or is it just a personal preference?


Thanks!

-Steve

[pipelineaudio]

personal preference and religious convictions. Also there is the bling factor if you have exceptionally stupid clients

[MadAudio]

I currently do not have a compressor plug-in (let alone know of one) that I can use while recording, so I use a real one. I certainly can't give a vocalist any "comfort 'verb" with a plug-in, either.

[foreverain4]

a plugin will never replace my 1176ln.

[WhiteStrat]

Yeah well, my rack gear's all cheap to mid-level and I'll never part with it. Even if I may end up not printing it, and using a plug instead, I still get inspired to play what I'm hearing in my head (and hear it while I'm playing!) better by dialing real knobs.

It may not be logical, but it fits my creative workflow. Yep, I likes me some buttons and lights...

[avieth]

If I used a computer to record I'd definitely use plug-ins, since many are free and don't take up any space. However, that's one of the reasons I don't use a computer. I prefer physical buttons, knobs, faders and meters over a computer monitor.

[Massive Master]

For most mixing functions, I'm pretty happy with plugs.

That said - I do tend to prefer analog processing - And pulling signals of analog repro heads - And analog summing.

[superspit]

Originally Posted by WhiteStrat

It may not be logical, but it fits my creative workflow. Yep, I likes me some buttons and lights...

This is written beautifully.....and I agree entirely!!...(Along with others suggesting that they want/need "real time" processing!!

Pluggins are great, and I use some of them (some reverbs) some of the time....but generally you can keep them and plug them up your bum...

[mattkw80]

I asked myself this question a year ago, and decided to focus all my outboard gear towards nice preamps.

Everything else (compressors, effects, reverb, etc.) is done with plugins at my place. (I have a UAD card)

It's kind of keep things nice and simple to know that I can save up for really high end preamps, instead of dividing my budget up into patch panels, power conditioning, outboard effects, compressors, etc. and all the other many many outboard hardware categories.

And pro's are getting great results staying and mixing entirely in the box.

(Charles Dye for example)

[suprstar]

Originally Posted by MadAudio

I currently do not have a compressor plug-in (let alone know of one) that I can use while recording, so I use a real one. I certainly can't give a vocalist any "comfort 'verb" with a plug-in, either.

This ^^, I use rack gear for monitoring only, or for live shows. Let the musicians hear what they wanna hear, but record a totally dry signal. When I'm mixing I use all plugins, they do sound better than my hardware gear.

[Massive Master]

decided to focus all my outboard gear towards nice preamps.

Reply of the Day Award.

[pipelineaudio]

Originally Posted by MadAudio

I currently do not have a compressor plug-in (let alone know of one) that I can use while recording, so I use a real one. I certainly can't give a vocalist any "comfort 'verb" with a plug-in, either.

Huh?

Since ASIO this has been a non issue

[Weasel9992]

Originally Posted by WhiteStrat

Yeah well, my rack gear's all cheap to mid-level and I'll never part with it. Even if I may end up not printing it, and using a plug instead, I still get inspired to play what I'm hearing in my head (and hear it while I'm playing!) better by dialing real knobs.

It may not be logical, but it fits my creative workflow. Yep, I likes me some buttons and lights...

I'm with him. All my outboard is firmly mid-level as well, and I still use my UAD and Voxengo plugins a good bit of the time, but there's some functions that my outboard stuff fills that the plugins just don't do quite as well. I run the RNLA or my VLA Pro on the mix buss much of the time, for example. I just like the image better. Same reason why I EQ from the console...I make better decisions when I work that way.

Frank

[Guitar4life0000]

Thanks everyone for your opinions! It helps me decide, I think I might save up for some external rack gear, thanks!

[superspit]

Originally Posted by Guitar4life0000

Thanks everyone for your opinions! It helps me decide, I think I might save up for some external rack gear, thanks!

YaaaaaaaY...He's keepin' it real!!

You can always download a darn plug-in too, whenever you want, and it's free......but you'll get hooked on the rackmounts!

[foreverain4]

seems i am in the minority. i have started buying apogee converters and tons of outboard gear. i am SICK of dealing with the flat sound of plugins. they all sound the same...

[superspit]

Originally Posted by foreverain4

seems i am in the minority. i have started buying apogee converters and tons of outboard gear. i am SICK of dealing with the flat sound of plugins. they all sound the same...

oh FR4!!.....are you really worried about being in the so called 'minority'?? (which I simply refuse to believe that you're in one!).

I think pluggins are great, if you can't afford all of their outboard equivalents. (which many of us can't, including me!).

Some people need pluggins as they don't have the space or the interconnectivity required for hardware.
But some pluggins cost $600AU buck!!...(Geeesh!)

I love the real time 'tweakiness' of 'hardware'.
I just happen to love hardware, and that it runs it's own prox (not my pc's).
I love interconnecting and side-chaining and all the changes that can be heard and felt with that.

I just don't see the pluggin in a warm and fuzzy way.
But then, a lot of people don't either.

I believe also that many people here who haven't had the pleasure/displeasure of running one or/stack of racks!...They Only know of Plugs and ASIO......fair enough!

And I guess I'm going to be shot now, for putting forward my own personal point of view!!......fair enough too!

But you know what, lately, I couldn't give a fuck....

[pohaku]

Well, issues of attraction to lights and knobs aside, it depends what you have for outboard gear as well. Plug ins are undeniably handy and have improved significantly over the years. If your choice of comp is limited to an Alesis 3630 and a UAD plug, you may well want the plug. But if you have good rack gear, you may prefer that sound over plugs. I have, for the most part, pretty decent rack gear, and I prefer to use that when I can. YMMV.

[pipelineaudio]

Originally Posted by foreverain4

i am SICK of dealing with the flat sound of plugins. they all sound the same...

Oh sure

just like sm57 and d-112 sound the same

"flat sound"? Does that mean "accurate"? If so then yeah, I hate it so bad when something does *exactly* what I tell it to. I would so much rather it does some random shit

Here is *some* of my rack gear







If I thought for one second that there was something audibly "worse" about using plugins, I could just plug the rack gear in. For the most part, far and wide, I don't. Sometimes if I will plug in the eventide or the m5k for reverb, but when the session is over I'll take an impulse and add it to the library, so that hopefully I won't have to bother the next time.

Of course, eventide and tc electronics are "just" dsp, but I've even seen some people say "digital hardware FX can be ok, but digital software FX will never be" Huh?

Plugins are not all good at providing that feedback loop to your brain the was *some* one knob per function hardware units are. This can cause people to rightly not like them. But claims about their sound being inferior in any way are downright silly

[mattkw80]

Damn...... pipeline knows how to party !!

Your rack(s) of gear are worth more than my house.

[superspit]

Originally Posted by pipelineaudio

Oh sure

just like sm57 and d-112 sound the same

"flat sound"? Does that mean "accurate"? If so then yeah, I hate it so bad when something does *exactly* what I tell it to. I would so much rather it does some random shit

Here is *some* of my rack gear







If I thought for one second that there was something audibly "worse" about using plugins, I could just plug the rack gear in. For the most part, far and wide, I don't. Sometimes if I will plug in the eventide or the m5k for reverb, but when the session is over I'll take an impulse and add it to the library, so that hopefully I won't have to bother the next time.

Of course, eventide and tc electronics are "just" dsp, but I've even seen some people say "digital hardware FX can be ok, but digital software FX will never be" Huh?

Plugins are not all good at providing that feedback loop to your brain the was *some* one knob per function hardware units are. This can cause people to rightly not like them. But claims about their sound being inferior in any way are downright silly

maybe it's (the rack thing) just a 'tactile' thing?......

I think when he used the word 'flat' it wasn't in the 'accurate translation' sence..(and I suspect you knew that Pipey!!)

Yeah, logic tells me that you're right about the differences in DSP units and Plugs. (or lack thereof!).....I was thinkin of racks that provide classic 'digital' processing of the incoming signal.....I never considered the 'DSP' side of things on this topic.
Anyways...to digress, have you guys seen plugs that have a 'processor intensity or 'amount of use'' function?.......There is one on the 'Ambience Reverb' plug (which I actually like alot!)....now turn down the amount of prox control, and the whole thing goes to shit!...(sorry...course sounding and choppy)......
I think I'm just being silly now....but I bet some of you would see the irony in this!!......

[pipelineaudio]

Yeah, tactile control is something that, especially for more musical engineers, plugins mostly sorely lack.

It can make a BIG difference! I could easily see someone being able to get a MUCH better mix out of a bunch of behringer and alesis 3630 units than the best plugins in the world.

One day maybe plugins will adress that side of it, and manufacturers are trying hard at the moment to do just that.

I also should have been clear to say that I dont mean there arent HORIBLE plugins out there, but the technology in and of itself is not the weak point, its the coders doing the DSP.

I hate to be the one defending *plugins in general* because you will more often see me screaming about how so many plugins are just copy and paste of the same code with a new GUI (or a gui stolen from elsewhere even)

In that case foreverrain was right about them sounding the same. However they dont inherently HAVE to sound the same, just when lameasses do the code.

I worked very hard on all the plugins where I am involved in the development to make sure they could do exactly what I wanted within the laws of current technology. There isn't a hardware gate in the world that can hold a candle to ReaGate in any measurable spec or final outcome for instance. I also believe plugins like MajorTom and VibeEQ may be changing the attitude of the more open minded out there about just what plugins can do in the tactile, "feel" arena

[MadAudio]

Originally Posted by pipelineaudio

Huh?

Since ASIO this has been a non issue

You assume a lot.

[pipelineaudio]

Can you clarify this? Either I'm not understanding your objection, or you are missing some of the improvements that have been made lately

[MadAudio]

Originally Posted by pipelineaudio

Can you clarify this? Either I'm not understanding your objection, or you are missing some of the improvements that have been made lately

I've had bad luck with ASIO. The drivers just don't work for me. So using outboard gear has been necessary for the kind of things I posted about earlier.

I saw your racks and racks of gear. You are obviously above the level of mere "home recording" and should remember this when posting here.