Hell To Pay - Reward

[skiz]

Hey guys, this is my second proper project..

im recording a couple songs for a friends band, and here is a sample of one that ive begun doing a little mixing on. My biggest problem is that im not very good at mixing in bass yet.. i never know whether there's too much bass or too little etc and struggling to get a good mix as far as the bass guit goes.

ANY WAY, here it is. What do you think? what could i do better?

http://www.lightningmp3.com/live/643...testmixmp3.mp3

(the genre is metal and i know theres a lot of people here that dont really like the new age metalcore but yeah, thats what they play)

also the drummer was off on a few things and will be in to retrack drums when the vocals have been finished.

thanks a lot!

[skiz]

Anyone?

[ksounds]

This rocks.

Not my thing, but I can try and comment on the mix.

To me, the only thing that stands out, maybe a bit too much, is the kick drum. Mayne that's all part of the sound of this type of music, not sure. I might be loosing the bass guitar just a little because of it.

Sound wise, everything sounds nice. The drummer rocks ass. The song kind of harkens back to Metallica's Justice days. The guitars sound good too. I hope the singer has a good voice and actually sings instead of just doing that monster "DARKOR" (couldn't think of another word to try and describe that sound, but that one does a pretty good job)thing the whole time. I can handle that for a measure or two, as long as there is some actual singing in there. Early Metallica is just as aggressive as Scream Core, but to me sounds soo much better cuz of Jame's singing talents back then. But, you're just producing them, so in that respect, sounds like you are on the right track.

[skiz]

awesome, thanks man. yeah im not really sure what to do with the bass at the moment.. should i bring it up a little?

yeah i might take the kick down.. always add a little much when im mixing and when i listen back the next day its usually a little strong.

what do you guys think about the guitar tone etc? still new to toying around with reverbs and stuff to add depth..

[Rokket]

Hi pass the bass guitar at about 150hz range and bring it up in the mix.

Bring the kick down a dB or two and it should stand out without eating the bass in the mix.

[skiz]

Cool ill give that a try tomorrow! Other than that, what am i doing right? What could i do better?

[VomitHatSteve]

Sounds pretty decent.

I thought the guitar tone was good. My only complaint with that is the little trills that you had panned all the way left (and then right later in the song). I would pan that closer to the center, especially since it's the only overt sound being made at the time. I noticed this more after the guitar panned to the right. There would be a full-band hit, and then I would hear nothing in my left ear and just a distant guitar trill in my right.

I think the drums could use some reverb.

[skiz]

Yea im thinking of getting the guitarist back in to double track that bit and have it spread both left and right. Not enough reverb? I put quite a lot of verb on both kick and snare. It seems like the verb comes thru a lot more on cubase and not so much once its mixed down.. How is that?

[Rokket]

Originally Posted by skiz

Yea im thinking of getting the guitarist back in to double track that bit and have it spread both left and right. Not enough reverb? I put quite a lot of verb on both kick and snare. It seems like the verb comes thru a lot more on cubase and not so much once its mixed down.. How is that?

It depends on the system it's played on. That's why it's always a good idea to burn the project to CD and try it out on different systems to make sure you have a happy medium on all of them.

[rayc]

AND a 3db peak on the bass at 3khz would give it a little defintion to cut through.

[skiz]

Im thinking the reverb on the guits are possibly a bit too much listening to it again..

[Rokket]

Originally Posted by skiz

Im thinking the reverb on the guits are possibly a bit too much listening to it again..

Then bring it down. A good rule that I have heard and tried for myself with success is to adjust the reverb to get the sound you are after, then bring it down in the mix until it disappears. After you render the project and listen on a few different systems, you'll be surprised at how much it sticks out.

[bozmillar]

Yeah, I would definitely say it does not need more reverb. Actually, it sounds a little bit distant to me. By distant, I don't mean that it sounds like it was recorded in a garage, I mean that it sounds like it was recorded in the early 90's.

Compare older Megadeth to new megadeth (not musically, but mixing style). This sounds like the older stuff. Metal now is much more in your face and beefy than it used to be.

So I would say it needs a little more bass, and probably heavier compression. People will always whine about the over compressed thing, but I always feel that heavy compression is like today's new distortion. People used to complain about overdriving guitar amps, saying that they are not meant for that. Now it's mainstream. I feel the same way about compression. Especially with this type of music, you can get away with some pretty heavy compression.

[skiz]

compression guitar wise? or the overall track?

yeah i didnt actually compress the guitars at all here.. dont really know enough about the attack and release times so i decided instead of making it sound worse ill leave it as is.

how would you compress crunchy guitars like this?

[SEDstar]

Well, metal is my "thing", and this is good stuff. If its a cover, *I'm Impressed*, and if its original, I am *very impressed*

that lead guitar really REMINDS me of a guitar I have heard a LOT before, on one of my old cassettes or CD's, I am sure of it...

I dont mean he's ripping the guy off, I mean thats how good he sounds....

I would like to hear the lead a LITTLE more, either a tad louder, or more clearly, whichever.

I dont really pick out the bass line on these cheap comp speakers I am listening on, and you do have to mix for crap systems, too... lol

I think I hear the bass when the whole song backs off a bit (mosh part/changeup/whatever-you-call-it) but, I dunno, it sounds like its being played an octave too low?

maybe the drums are a tad too high in volume.

drums down, lead up or more clear, and ???

maybe a few tiny volume reductions/verb reductions... will let the bass come thru...

but, I'm impressed. Please mix a version without any core vocals, eh? lol some "DARKOR" (cool word, hee hee) vocals sound a little bit like the dog on the "Jetsons", lol

[bozmillar]

adding some compression to the guitars, if done correctly, will make them sound more chuggidy chug, and I would compress the drums a bit more. Then you could slam the mix against a limiter, but not too hard

People will write on forums about how you are killing the dynamics, but the metalheads will love it.

[skiz]

Thanks for the kind words sedstar! and the constructive crit

yeah the song is an orig by them.

**UPDATE** ok so i remix'ed a little. Took a lot of reverb off the guits, hipassed the bass at about 125 hz and boosted a little at 3k and brought up the levels

added compression to the guits (really hope i did it ok..) just tell me if it needs more/less

i still need to get the guitarest in to retrack those twangy bits so that its not just panned left/right etc.

tried to take the kick down. brought up the snare bottom mic to try give it a little bit extra snap, and took the top mic down a bit.

about running the whole mix thru a limiter.. im too lazy to do it right now but i plan to after i get the mix right..

any way enough rambling.. here it is http://www.lightningmp3.com/live/file.php?id=13649

what do you think? improvement? i fucked it up?

[bozmillar]

I personally like the second mix better. Are the drums mono? It seems more obvious in the second mix.

[skiz]

i recorded them with the recorderman style overhead setup one panned hard left one panned hard right

the kick and snare are in the middle.

didnt mic toms, will be doing that when the drummer retracks.

so what did i do right/wrong and how do you think i could improve it?

[bozmillar]

hmm, I've never done the recorderman setup myself, but I know the main principle is to get both the snare and the kick to be in phase at both overhead mics. It works well if using just 2 mics on the drum kit. My guess would be (this is only a guess) that you can keep the overheads in the same place, but aim them more at the HH and ride so that they're main focus would be to separate the stereo image of the cymbals, while letting the kick and snare mics do the dirty work on the kick and snare.

I had to put mesh heads on my drum set because I live in an apartment, and have gone the way of using sampled drums.

I wouldn't suggest retracking the drums, but something to play around with at some point

[skiz]

Ok so that mix 3 that i posted wasn't so nice i realised the next day i listened to it!

so here is one that i think im happy with.. getting much closer to the sound that i want

http://www.lightningmp3.com/live/file.php?id=13705

[skiz]

just giving the thread a bump cause i added a new mix to my last post ^^^^