Before you buy a PTLE Digi 002 or 003...

[nuemes]

I've had a Digi 002 for two years now and I was never happy with the sound compared to what I was able to get from an old 20bit ADAT.

The AD/DA converters on the 002 are absolutely crap. They are muddy. You will never get punch or a clear high end from it, no matter how much you spend on mics & preamps. Trust me.

I've since gotten an Aurora 8 AD/DA converter that I use with the optical in/outs on the 002, allowing the 002 to be completely bypassed. It's night and day. Huge improvement. The kick sounds exactly like in the room. It's tight, detailed, punchy. Snare has top end I never heard recorded before. Sounds like sitting in the room with the kit. Bass & guitars are more detailed.

But here's the deal: in order to get that sound using PTLE you have to buy a 002/003 unit and an expensive AD/DA converter running at no higher than 48k (due to the single optical input on the 002)

What a waste. Take my advice - stay out of PTLE. It's a money pit compared to other non PT options.

Be prepared to spend $3k+ just to run PTLE at 48k with a decent AD/DA.

[M10K]

Thanks for the advice? I think I'll get back to making music now.

[playsguitars]

Here's my opinion on this issue:

1. Feel free to use whatever you like as your interface, it's all about tecknique. seriously, i've used a cheap-ass yamaha 16 channel mixer with 8 mic's to record a 31 piece drum set, paired with Sonar home studio 4, and it turned out superb. that one was strictly about placement and gentle gain usage.
2. I DO use pro tools LE with the 002rack, and let me tell you, i think it sounds phenomonal at that price point. true, you're getting your money jacked at the time of purchase, but to me, pro tools software has saved HUNDREDS of hours of time off my clock because of it's intuitive features, ease of use, and streamline-ability.
3. no, i'm not some fan boy trying to push digi products, but i do believe that it has helped many people find that creative outlet that other products seem to hinder. i concentrate more on DOING than LEARNING some bulky, clunky software that's hard to navigate through. I read one book (eventually took some classes and whatnot) and was good to go for the most part. that's it. In other programs, they can be so complex that i can't even find the click track feature.

this is just my 2 cents. don't go bashing me because i fell "victim" to digi. it's a great tool to have and if you don't like it, don't buy it.

[nuemes]

Originally Posted by playsguitars

don't go bashing me because i fell "victim" to digi.

Show me a quote where I bashed you.

[bennychico11]

so you're saying that an all in one unit (software included) doesn't sound as good as a dedicated A/D converter?!!!?!?!?!?!? You mean since Digidesign has to concentrate their efforts in software development as well as hardware development for consumers so that the average joe can get an interface with software for ~$1000 and still get 18 channels of I/O....that maybe a company who specializes in creating A/D converters might do a better job and have a reason to charge you ~$2000.



As a side question can someone tell me why my Westinghouse 32" HDTV doesn't look as good as Sony's 32" HDTV....I mean I did pay $500 for mine. I just don't see why a $1500 TV should look any better.

[Dax Productions]

Yeah seriously...

The converters in digi's LE stuff is definitely on par with most stuff in it's price bracket... I could spend around 700 on a comparable m-audio or presonus interface to an 003r, spend $500 on logic 8, and be in the same ballpark quality wise.

Sure it's not a pro sound, but you're not paying a pro price. It's consumer quality gear, that you can make pro quality records with, if you know what you're doing.

As a sidenote.... I really think ADDA is such a small piece of the process. A great band that wrote a great song that was recorded by a great engineer with a great producer won't be ruined by so-so AD conversion.

If you're ready to drop $3k on AD and an interface, why not grab a PT legacy system. You'll get digidesign's good converters, be able to be flexible with whatever pres you want, and probably still come in well under $3k. Not to mention full on protools TDM. Spend the rest on some cool outboard gear!

[ibleedburgundy]

So you are saying it's worth it to upgrade the AD/DA Converters for $2,000? Maybe I just suck but I think the quality on the 002 is pretty good and basically limited only by the room I record in at this point.

I do feel like there is an overall clarity missing from my recordings but I have a feeling there are many things out there that could help. Maybe AD/DA converters are one of them.

[playsguitars]

Originally Posted by nuemes

Show me a quote where I bashed you.

sorry, it should have read: "don't GO bashing me.." ah, wait. it does...
didn't say you bashed me yet when i wrote it.

[nuemes]

Originally Posted by ibleedburgundy

I do feel like there is an overall clarity missing from my recordings but I have a feeling there are many things out there that could help. Maybe AD/DA converters are one of them.

This is what I'm talking about. After spending thousand of dollars on preamps & mics I still couldn't get the clarity I was looking for. AD/DA does make a big difference, to my ears.

I've seen many posts where people gave advice stating that AD/DA is not that important. You can certainly release excellent music on any recordable format such as the campfire tapes & GBV.

Put a Fireface 400/Sonar setup next to Digi 002/PTLE. They'd be nearly the same price and there will be a notable difference in AD/DA quality.

[Dax Productions]

Yes, of course there's a "difference," but to my ears, its so minute next to differences between high and low end pres, mics, outboard.... not to mention the fact that you won't be able to really appreciate the difference unless you put a fair chunk of money into acoustics and monitoring too.

Assuming you've spent the money on all this stuff, why would you even think of hooking it all up to a consumer interface?

Also, yes, the rme400 will have better conversion, but it's not the equivalent interface to an 002r or 003r. That would be the ff800. Buying that plus sonar new from sweetwater would run well over $2g's. So I don't think this is at all a fair comparison. You spend more, you get better stuff. That's how it works!

[nuemes]

Originally Posted by Dax Productions

Yes, of course there's a "difference," but to my ears, its so minute next to differences between high and low end pres, mics, outboard.... not to mention the fact that you won't be able to really appreciate the difference unless you put a fair chunk of money into acoustics and monitoring too.

Assuming you've spent the money on all this stuff, why would you even think of hooking it all up to a consumer interface?

Also, yes, the rme400 will have better conversion, but it's not the equivalent interface to an 002r or 003r. That would be the ff800. Buying that plus sonar new from sweetwater would run well over $2g's. So I don't think this is at all a fair comparison. You spend more, you get better stuff. That's how it works!

All good points - and you're right about using the 002 - since its nature is more of a consumer interface when you're ready to upgrade you're kind of stuck in a no-man's land between that and the HD system, which is where I'm at, not ready to make the financial jump to HD.

[MessianicDreams]

Originally Posted by nuemes

Awhen you're ready to upgrade you're kind of stuck in a no-man's land between that and the HD system

Really? so you think that the 10 digital i/o's don't offer the opportunity for a step up in quality?

funny that......and there was you saying that you'd made much better recordings bye buying an external converter....

[Dax Productions]

Originally Posted by MessianicDreams

Really? so you think that the 10 digital i/o's don't offer the opportunity for a step up in quality?

funny that......and there was you saying that you'd made much better recordings bye buying an external converter....

Exactly right. Plus... if you've got the cash for the great preamps, mics, room treatment, etc... buying an HD system, or at the very least, an old TDM system should be chump change in comparison!

Basically, the way I see it is that there is no point in going out of your way for great conversion if all you're going to get is a stunningly accurate interpretation of a cheap mic in a bad room through a budget preamp.

[nuemes]

Originally Posted by MessianicDreams

Really? so you think that the 10 digital i/o's don't offer the opportunity for a step up in quality?

funny that......and there was you saying that you'd made much better recordings bye buying an external converter....

The Aurora running at 44.1 or 48KHz as an external converter for the 002 is a major step up from running the through the 002 at 96KHz. However, with the Aurora set up this way the optical input only allows a max of 48KHz.

That's the no-man's land I'm referring to.

I think the only way to get 96KHz with an external converter using PTLE is through one of the new M-Box's(?)

[nuemes]

Originally Posted by Dax Productions

Exactly right. Plus... if you've got the cash for the great preamps, mics, room treatment, etc... buying an HD system, or at the very least, an old TDM system should be chump change in comparison!

Or buy the Lynx card and record direct to your Mac on different software for much less than a HD1 system at $8k(!)