Why not record vocals with two or more mics?

blue4u · #1 06-24-2008

I have read and heard that it is a bad idea to record a lead vocal with multiple mics. Aside from obvious phase issues (cancellation) I can't really understand why this practice isn't more common? I mean, we use multiple mics on other instruments like the snare drum to fill out the spectrum and add more depth (i.e. missing frequencies from the other mic) so why not do the same with a vocal setup? I know that with a great mic pre and the right mic it is hardly needed anyway but this particular taboo in audio recording has me curious! Has anyone experimented with using more than one mic for a single vocal track? If so, what were your results?

Your thoughts please......

Thx,
Rich

tmix · #2 06-24-2008

I think with the obvious exception of placement for minimal phase issues, I have used multiple mics for vocals before with good results.

It typically went like this:

I don't know which mic would sound the best on your voice so let me put these 2.
Dang,.... it sounds better with both!

So we left it.

DrewPeterson7 · #3 06-24-2008

My understanding is that it's pretty much a product of phase issues. Not that I've tried this or anything, but I'd think you would need a vocalist who basically keeps dead still while singing, or phasing would become a problem as slight changes in orientation would lead to unpredictable, ever-changing phasing issues...

blue4u · #4 06-24-2008

Ok. Singers rocking back and forth, moving around makes a great deal of sense for why this would be problematic but then I think, well...when we stereo mic acoustic guitar the same thing happens. The guitarist is moving back and forth but the x/y configuration keeps phase issues to a minimum. Hmmmm, maybe a stereo-mic setup for lead vocals would prove interesting! Anyone give that a go?

R

TimOBrien · #5 06-24-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue4u

I have read and heard that it is a bad idea ....

Stop right at that point in any conversation that starts out like that and just walk away....

eyeteeth · #6 06-25-2008

I dunno... I was trying to decide between mics once... felt like experimenting... so I took the two I Didn't use... and ended up making a triangle with condenser Mics. I used one Mic as a close mic. 6" to a foot away... then the other two were placed about 5 feet away from the singer, and about 5 feet apart. Mixing, the two distant mics were panned left and right, and placed very subtly in the back round. You need to know they are there, and have headphones to pick them out individually, but it did open up and give the vocals "space" as well as provide some of the same characteristics as recording multiple (very accurate) layers.

Rules are made to be broken right? I enjoy experimenting as you never know what might come out of it.

ofajen · #7 06-25-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue4u

I have read and heard that it is a bad idea to record a lead vocal with multiple mics. Aside from obvious phase issues (cancellation) I can't really understand why this practice isn't more common?

Since it's more complex, there should probably be a purpose for the extra trouble. This is, in fact, the basic idea behind the Josephson Series Seven mike. The mono version has an omni capsule and a figure-8 capsule inside, as close together as possible. Then the outputs of both capsules are run out on separate leads in the cable.

This lets you record both the omni signal and figure-8 signal and then process them and make final decisions about pattern or processing at mix time. It also lets you process the two components differently, taking advantage of the strengths of each pattern and then combining them.

However, this mike has the two capsules really close together to minimize arrival time differences. You can try it at home with two mikes, but it probably won't be quite the same. I've tried it on occasion with two mikes one right over the other and not been that impressed with my results. Still, you may like the sound.

I might have better luck, now that I have a smaller mike with a figure-8 pattern to partner with a small-diaphragm omni mike. Hmmm... that's probably worth trying out.

Cheers,

Otto

giraffe · #8 06-26-2008

done it before, will do it again.

just make sure the phase is good and go, you can always throw one out later, use alternate mics for alternate passages or, just mix both to get the sound you want.

Ripthorn · #9 06-30-2008

I've tried it before, but the results were not pretty (the vocalist was not one to be bragged about). But an interesting idea, kind of in the Josephson seven mic vien would be to use a soundfield mic for vocal recording. That could give some way cool results.

JustAboutReal · #10 06-30-2008

The main reason for recording vocals with only one microphone is that vocals are really a mono sound source. The best sound comes directly out of the singers mouth.

Then there's the issue of the space contraint. You would want to use the best microphone for the job, and put it in the best position to pick up that signal, and there an only be one microphone in that spot.

Using one microphone close and a spaced pair farther away is a good idea (as someone else suggested). It gives you that good direct signal, and the spaced pair picks up the natural reverb, which adds depth to the performance while still obeying the 3-to-1 rule, so not too much phasing.

mixsit · #11 06-30-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustAboutReal

.. and the spaced pair picks up the natural reverb, which adds depth to the performance while still obeying the 3-to-1 rule, so not too much phasing.

..Because their down nine or ten db..

nattyj · #12 06-30-2008

There's NO REASOn at all not try two (or more).

Try two right next to each other (1 X condenser, 1 X dynamic for instance).Then when mixing listen to one, the other and combinations of each.

David Bowie used room mics to great effect. One example was him recording in long corridors where he would place a number of microphones along the length of the corridor and then pick and choose what he liked by blending them. (I am only going by what I've read though of course.....)

No such thing as rules.

LI_Slim · #13 06-30-2008

Why not have the vocalist swallow a little condensor mic like the ones they put inside acoustic quitars with blended systems. (Or, depending on the singer, place it in some other orifice.)

boingoman · #14 07-01-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustAboutReal

It gives you that good direct signal, and the spaced pair picks up the natural reverb, which adds depth to the performance while still obeying the 3-to-1 rule, so not too much phasing.

Please explain in greater detail.

cavedog101 · #15 07-01-2008

Its quite okay to use any number of mics on a vocal as long as the phase relationship is attended to.

Stacking two condensers is a technique that has been used for years (not that common but still used) It promotes the chest sound as well as the tone coming out of the sinus areas for some singers.

If you think the only sound is through the mouth you need to give a serious up close listen to someone singing and rotate a mic throughout the area they're in.

Interesting things to be had there.

Again. Phase is all important here.

3rd&4thT · #16 07-02-2008

With two mics at different levels and distances running into separate tracks, you can go much lighter on compression - just use the close mic for the quiet passages and the distant one when the singer cuts loose (also good for spoken word and cartoons).

And I did read about one singer who psychologically needed to work a close mic but sounded better at a distance. So the engineer told her to sing to the close one, but only used the output of the other.

3rd&4thT

blue4u · #17 07-09-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by LI_Slim

Why not have the vocalist swallow a little condensor mic like the ones they put inside acoustic quitars with blended systems. (Or, depending on the singer, place it in some other orifice.)