Doppler tuning (not recording)

[Gear_Junky]

Hi. I am trying to get back into drums.

I read at "the drum tuning bible" about this "doppler effect" - when the drum is tuned to descend in pitch after the initial attack. I mean acoustically without any miking/processing.

This sound is often present in electronic drum sounds - a certain "disco" type "kit" will have the toms with that typical 80's sound.

I've been trying to follow the procedures, but haven't gotten that yet.

I am trying to use Aquarian Performance II clear heads (batter) and I have some kind of Remo clear resonants (I don't remember when I got them). They're in good shape, but they have the rainbowy look, must be a multiply? I wonder if single-ply resonants are the answer?

Thanks!

[Greg_L]

Yes, use single-ply resos. A 2-ply is pretty thick and dead for a resonant head.

[Gear_Junky]

thanks! will try and report back!

[RAMI]

Or hit your drum while driving by a microphone at 60mph.

[Farview]

The reso head needs to be signle ply. They also need to be relatively fresh, after a few years they lose their elasticity and you won't be able to tune them correctly.

[Gear_Junky]

so with fresh thin heads is it pretty easy to achieve the effect?

i have a "vintage" premier set akin to the Beatle set (same finish) with 12" rack and 16" floor. The shells appear to be mahogany (and i've been told so).

the drums sound nice, but i'd really like that effect, i think.

[Gear_Junky]

Greg_L, you seem to know your stuff:

I am off to buy resonants today. Like I said, I'm using Aquarian Performance II on toms and I think I like them overall.

My logic is to also get Aquarians for the bottom - they don't require the cracking of the glue joint (from what I read) and will probably be a better match. What they say about their hoops and bearing edge seems to make sense.

anywho, there's a choice of regular clears (they're medium weight singles) and the Hi Frequency (light singles). Which would you suggest and why? I like low, punchy toms, which are not too ringy, but I am "growing" to realize that all the muffling and even studio rings are "wrong".

My studio rings sounded "better" to me on the drums, but when I heard the diff. from 10 feet away - they sounded like cardboard (no punch and no life and no cut-through). without the rings - pleasant resonance/attack.

thanks!

[Farview]

The resonant heads need to be thin and single ply.

[Greg_L]

Originally Posted by Gear_Junky

Greg_L, you seem to know your stuff:

Too much pressure!

I'd go with a medium weight single-ply reso head. You want something that will maintain the tone with some ring. That ring is what gives toms their fullness and tone. What you hear behind the kit isn't what people are hearing out in the audience. If it sounds dead at your throne, it sounds super-dead 20 feet away.

I've never gone for the "doppler" sound. I've heard it and it's okay, but it aint for me. I just tune my shit standard and pound away.

[Gear_Junky]

Originally Posted by Greg_L

:I'd go with a medium weight single-ply reso head.

why not light, then?

[Greg_L]

Originally Posted by Gear_Junky

why not light, then?

If you want a deeper tom sound, a medium head will do better. But like I said, I don't mess with that doppler sound. Just from whatever I know about heads, I'd think you'd want a reso head that can maintain some tone.

[Supercreep]

I like it on my floor toms.

[Gear_Junky]

well, I figured out and understood how this works - resonant MUST be higher (i.e. a 4th) - that's the initial sound you hear, while the batter is in contact with stick, then the lower batter comes out, hence the "pow" sound.

I can't seem to get it yet, though. I get really nice tom sound, but nothing like "doppler" I've heard on samples and recordings.

[NightFlight]

I also prefer tuning top and bottom the same pitch, but I read an article once by a DW technician explaining the doppler tuning. He tuned the top head a minor 3rd higher than the bottom head. He also tuned the bottom head slightly lower than the drum shell's "fundamental" tone, something which I've always found hard to recognize.

[drossfile]

Originally Posted by Gear_Junky

well, I figured out and understood how this works - resonant MUST be higher (i.e. a 4th) - that's the initial sound you hear, while the batter is in contact with stick, then the lower batter comes out, hence the "pow" sound.

I can't seem to get it yet, though. I get really nice tom sound, but nothing like "doppler" I've heard on samples and recordings.

keep in mind that you're not going to get an electronic sound out of an acoustic kit. if you're trying to get that "in the air tonight" sound, you need some heavy processing in the way of compressed and gated reverb.

don't know if that's what you're going for or not, but thought it might be worth mentioning.

[tmix]

Originally Posted by NightFlight

I read an article once by a DW technician explaining the doppler tuning. He tuned the top head a minor 3rd higher than the bottom head.

This will make the drum pitch bend up, not down.
When the upper head is initially hit you get the initial stick sound from the upper head , but the initial tone is produced by the the bottom head. The secondary tone will be the batter head. When the Batter head is tuned about a half tone (-50 cents) to 3/4ths tone lower than the reso it seems to work best for me. When hit hard the the initial head is stretched with the impact putting it at the same note as the bottom, when it relaxes it draws the pitch down.
I have never gotten it to sound right trying for a pitch difference of more than a full note step , and certainly not a 5 to 6 half steps or a minor 3rd.

But that is probably just me.

[Gear_Junky]

Originally Posted by drossfile

keep in mind that you're not going to get an electronic sound out of an acoustic kit. if you're trying to get that "in the air tonight" sound, you need some heavy processing in the way of compressed and gated reverb.

don't know if that's what you're going for or not, but thought it might be worth mentioning.

I understand. I wasn't going for electronic, but yes, I'm sure I can't get a recorded/compressed/reverbed sound acoustically. But, what I mean is: I'm not getting the actual "pow" descending pitch sound.