Cassette-only "record" labels

[lo.fi.love]

I'm starting a cassette-only label. All of my releases will be on cassette and I'm wondering if by chance there is anyone else here who is doing the same.

Just thought I would check to see. This is the only part of the board where I thought I could find anyone else doing this.

Anyone? Or, does anyone know of other cassette-only labels?

[M10K]

Interesting...but WHY?

[jjones1700]

I admire the thought and can appreciate what you are trying to achieve, but I think you would be really limiting yourself in regards to your fans. How many people (read: non-musicians) do you know that still have cassette decks in their household? I've got 6, but I'm a whole other story. Most people don't have cars old enough that included cassette decks in them. See my point?

[lonewhitefly]

i am interested in this as well; i have a finished album i was thinking about issuing on cassette because digital just sounds so bad

[hungovermorning]

Originally Posted by lonewhitefly

i am interested in this as well; i have a finished album i was thinking about issuing on cassette because digital just sounds so bad

Why not vinyl? That's what our label does. We combine vinyl releases with a free digital download. I get what you mean on cassettes, I really like them too.

[MadAudio]

ROIR used to be cassette-only....

[lonewhitefly]

i'd love to do vinyl (vinyl and 1/4" open reel are my favorite playback formats), but I don't have the budget for it for a small run (like 200 or so).

my recordings are made completely analog and it kills me after i mix it down to tape to transfer it to CD, even worse when it goes mp3. after working with the tape so long and getting used to the sounds, it doesn't even sound like music to me when it goes to digital.

that said, cassette is a compromised format, but at least it sounds "right" - if not hi-fi.

i also can't get the mp3 files to even sound decent - i am really bad when it comes to doing anything with music on the computer. i had a radical idea to release the album on 1/4" open reel, 8 track cartridge, and cassette. not sure if i can pull it off, but i think it would make a great statement. i gave in and put some stuff on the internet though:

http://www.myspace.com/magicherovsrockpeople

Donny

[Herm]

I bought a brand new 2006 ford truck that came with a cassette and combo cd player radio.

[lo.fi.love]

I wasn't ready to justify to my position, but I suppose I'll have to post some kind of manifesto really soon...

And yes, ROIR was a cassette label. They released some of America's most seminal hardcore bands on cassette. I'm more interested in what the cassette can do today, which I will be touching on once I post my story.

So please, hold on for another day while I put this all together into some kind of coherent message

[trancedental]

Cassette duplicating machines would most probably currently be going for very cheap prices as the format sales have declined. You could buy one of these & save production costs!!!!!!!!!

From what I remember for record label cassette releases, master tapes were recorded onto a reel to reel recorder & then the tape was put inside the cassete shell afterwards. This was to avoid problems with using the cassette mechanism / machine itself to record tape.

[famous beagle]

Originally Posted by lonewhitefly

i'd love to do vinyl (vinyl and 1/4" open reel are my favorite playback formats), but I don't have the budget for it for a small run (like 200 or so).

my recordings are made completely analog and it kills me after i mix it down to tape to transfer it to CD, even worse when it goes mp3. after working with the tape so long and getting used to the sounds, it doesn't even sound like music to me when it goes to digital.

that said, cassette is a compromised format, but at least it sounds "right" - if not hi-fi.

i also can't get the mp3 files to even sound decent - i am really bad when it comes to doing anything with music on the computer. i had a radical idea to release the album on 1/4" open reel, 8 track cartridge, and cassette. not sure if i can pull it off, but i think it would make a great statement. i gave in and put some stuff on the internet though:

http://www.myspace.com/magicherovsrockpeople

Donny

The link's not working for me. Maybe you are really bad at working with computers and audio!

[analogkid]

Interesting idea! As for things sounding bad on CD, that in my experience is usually in the Mastering process. Each format requires different equalization etc, and one of the reasons that a lot of the first and second generation commercially released CDs (I'm pointing the finger at YOU MCA Records!) were made from either the vinyl masters (bad) or the cassette masters (worse). I'm sure there is somewhere on the net that they discuss the specific techniques for each format. I don't have a link, but I will go look for one....

As for MP3: it's a shit format! I strongly urge anyone releasing music as a download to either simply release in either .wav (clean, uncompressed audio) or to use a lossless format like FLAC. People that are buying music online should be pretty savvy by now; plus if they REALLY want mp3 they can readily convert it themselves.

In any case, I applaud your efforts and wish you luck in your endeavor!


AK

[Bobby Darko]

actually, there are tons of cassette labels around and there's new ones every day. cassette decks are dirt cheap and there are always people interested in buying cassette releases, just don't make more than 50 at one time and take care of the artwork. Cheers, Hermann

www.myspace.com/casacassette

[santiu]

can someone edumicate me?

I'm young, and while I remember cassette tapes, I don't remember them being that great sound quality wise. What's so great about cassette tapes? Do they have the ability to sound better than CDs (or SACDs)?

If you wanted to put out something on cassette tape, what would be the preferred medium to record onto (I've being dying to get my feet wet in analog stuff, but it's not the time for me yet... so i have no clue what the hell you guys do over here)?

Sorry for my computer generated analog ignorance

[analogkid]

Hey santiu, welcome to the Analog Only forums.... I'm kinda new here as well, but let me try to answer some of your questions:

Cassttes are NOT all that great sound quality wise, but they often sound better than some CDs. Digital recording techniques offer phenomenal dynamic range, which analog simply can't match. Frequency response, on the other hand, is limited in digital recording by the bit-rate; the higher the bit rate the better the frequency response range. Audio CD standard is 16 bit, which gives you the 20hz-20khz range. It IS a bit more complicated than that, but for simplicity we will leave it there for now. The first (and in my mind still the biggest) problem with digital is that there is NOTHING recorded above this 20khz frequency - well actually 22.5khz on each channel in stereo, but the sound is rolled off VERY quickly above 20khz. That means all the natural harmonics are simply not on tha digital recording AT ALL.
Now on a vinyl record, the frequency response of a clean, brand new disc may exceed 100khz! The dynamic range is much more limited, MAYBE 60db on the older, thick LPs(Groove depth on an LP is directly proportional to dynamic range). While your ears can't here it - most people can't even hear 20kz tones - you DO hear the harmonic overtones from these higher frequencies. Even on a cassette tape, where the frequency response begins to roll off around 16.5 khz, the tape still records very low levels of whatever frequencies are present, PLUS the high frequencies drop out quite smoothly.
That is one of the key advantages of analog recording. Digital recording will always be nothing more than an approximation of the original sound, though these days a darned good one.
As for a starter machine for analog recording, I'd recommend one of the many TASCAM 4-track cassette machines - you can get darned good sound off these units with a little practice, and it is a very good way to find out if you want to invest in more expensive analog gear.


Hope that helps!


AK

[lonewhitefly]

sorry the link didn't work, i am bad i promise, try searching for Magic Hero Vs. Rock People on google and it should come up

[lo.fi.love]

Originally Posted by santiu

can someone edumicate me?

I'm young, and while I remember cassette tapes, I don't remember them being that great sound quality wise. What's so great about cassette tapes? Do they have the ability to sound better than CDs (or SACDs)?

A lot of tapes sound crappy, but this can be for a number of reasons. First, choosing Type II (CrO2) cassettes over Type I cassettes gives better sound quality. Next time you go to any decent record store or maybe even Wal-Mart, you might see blank tapes labeled "Ideal for CD". They really are ideal for CD, or for taping anything really. Type I cassettes just sound like crap in my opinion.

Also, caring for your tapes will help them to sound great over a longer period of time. Keep them out of the sun (millions of tapes have been destroyed by being set on someone's car dashboard in the summer), keep your player's heads clean (you can buy "cleaning cassettes" to do this), keep the tapes away from magnets, and keep them away from sources of heat. Setting a cassette on top of your tape player is a good way to harm your cassette (many tape deck cabinets get hot when in use), as is setting it on top of a speaker cabinet.

Tapes will deteriorate over time under frequent use, which is where CDs offer a clear advantage (if they're kept clean and don't get scuffed, which rarely happens in my experience). That's the problem with all analog formats, but the problem can be mitigated by abiding a few simple precautions.

[lo.fi.love]

Originally Posted by trancedental

Cassette duplicating machines would most probably currently be going for very cheap prices as the format sales have declined. You could buy one of these & save production costs!!!!!!!!

Yup. I managed to snag a Kingdom One Touch ST 1:4 duplicator with an additional 4-copy slave unit from eBay for $300. The master and slave retail for $1,400 new, each. I got $2,800 worth of duplicator equipment for $300. I love a good deal!

[lo.fi.love]

Originally Posted by hungovermorning

Why not vinyl? That's what our label does. We combine vinyl releases with a free digital download. I get what you mean on cassettes, I really like them too.

I'll give my reasons.

1: Storage and inventory. If a release doesn't sell for some reason, I don't want 1,000 LPs or 45s sitting around collecting dust. If you own your own means of duplication (as I do, with my cassette duplicator), you can produce copies "on demand" as long as you've got all the j-cards and labels printed up.

2: No setup costs. Record pressing plants charge a number of one-time setup fees for stampers, plating, etc. Not so with cassettes. All I need to do is mix everything and it's ready for reproduction.

3: Shipping. Since most small/tiny labels don't get any interest from distributors, most distribution is done by the label. Shipping a tape costs less and requires fewer packing materials than shipping a LP.

4: Portability. My friend's band is going to Europe next year. They're a DIY sort of operation and they'll be taking their merchandise with them on the plane. It will be much easier for them to take 200 cassettes on the plane than it would be to take 200 LPs.

As a side note, the cassette is still a VERY popular format in the European underground scene. My friend said that on his band's last trip to Europe, everyone first asked "Do you have any records?", and then "Do you have any tapes?". Very few people asked for CDs. Weird, huh?

[cjacek]

Yeah, I noticed that vinyl and cassettes are much more popular in EUROPE. Maybe you should target the EU?

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[lo.fi.love]

Originally Posted by cjacek

Yeah, I noticed that vinyl and cassettes are much more popular in EUROPE. Maybe you should target the EU?

---

I'm looking into this. I'm scouring the Internet and various zines for information on distros and labels in Europe. Folks in Europe go NUTS for American metal/thrash/hardcore, and for good reason, too: it's REALLY difficult to find American music over there. I can't imagine there's anything like Amoeba (local, independent music megastore) in Hungary or Latvia, but I'm only speculating.

[cjacek]

Just to put it out-there that it's too bad cassettes are not at least competing with the current technology as many a time tapes can sound much nicer and natural than the CD [even when properly mastered] and certainly much better than mp3. While I don't necessarily buy into the hyper sonics of the said format, I always was of the thought that tape represents the original linear analog signal more naturally than does a technology which uses limited sampling [even within the audible human hearing range]. I would like to see higher end cassette decks again with good tapes [chrome, metal etc...]. We already did a whole thread, recently, on digital vs analog and so please lets not start another one. Either format is viable and has both positive and negative attributes. No one's trashing anything, just giving opinions, as asked. [I had to do a disclaimer].

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[jjones1700]

Wow, I guess I really showed my ignorance of the format's demand out there. I love cassettes, not as much as my 1/4" reel to reel, but cassettes can sound damn good if done right. I've used Maxell XL-II cassettes for various things for about 20 years and the older ones still sound fantastic. The bonus is that is what works best in my 424mkII.

I had no idea that there were that many cassette labels out there. All I keep seeing is people posting up mp3s and not even offering a CD. I do have to say this is one time that I am glad I stand corrected!

Now, for a tech question. How easy/hard is it to pull apart a car stereo and clean the heads and transport? Do they generally operate off belts or gears? I've got a deck that is starting to act up and I need to get it handled before it actually kills a tape.

Okay, I'm going to go sit in my corner and shut up so I can learn some stuff in here.

[Tim Gillett]

Cleaning car stereo tape paths is usually a pain.

Here in Oz we used to have special wet cleaning cassettes made by BIB and Allsop which did a passable job. But for a proper clean the unit may have to be removed from the dash and the cover taken off.
Later units had a special security screw to stop thieving which made it even harder to remove from the dash. I took the screw out.

I've ben thinking of putting my old tape player back in the car along with the CD player as I have a whole lot more cassettes than CD's.

Tim

[jjones1700]

Originally Posted by Tim Gillett

Cleaning car stereo tape paths is usually a pain.

Here in Oz we used to have special wet cleaning cassettes made by BIB and Allsop which did a passable job. But for a proper clean the unit may have to be removed from the dash and the cover taken off.
Later units had a special security screw to stop thieving which made it even harder to remove from the dash. I took the screw out.

I've ben thinking of putting my old tape player back in the car along with the CD player as I have a whole lot more cassettes than CD's.

Tim

Mine is easy to get out. It's the goofy Ford "security" system that just requires two small flat head screw drivers to unlatch the metal tabs. It's the disassembly of the deck itself that concerns me.