problem micing my drums

[nopainkiller]

I have a 4 peice cad drum mic set. I use the snare and the kick drum mics, and then one radioshack mic for the overhead, since I can only record 4 tracks at a time onto my 8 track tascam 488mk11. I'm getting a set of nady cheap condesser mics, the scm900 and the cm90. i will use the cm90 for the overhead when i get it. But Being a drummer, and having to play and record and then stop and rewind and listen, then try to mess with the eq on all three mics is rediculous.

Anybody with tips on EQing the drums before recording? I can't get a good sound. doesn't sound like drums. Should I just record it all with normal eq and then mix it later? Or are there tricks for the snare mic and bass mic and overhead? Any advice please. except to buy new mics or a new porta studio.

[Greg_L]

4 tracks at a time is easy. 2 overheads, kick, and snare.

I don't know about EQ'ing on the way in. You just have to play with it and do a bunch of test runs.

[Vulconizer]

I'd say that your going to benefit the most from where you place the mics.

I agree with Greg_L on what to mic. Kick, snare, and overheads.


Just play around with getting the individual mics sounding as good as you can with your placement and worry about EQing in the mixing stage.
If you EQ on the way in, then the sound of the drums are already colored in a way that you may not care for when you start mixing in the rest of your instruments. That's how I look at it, at least.

Also, since it sounds as if you are working on this solo, can you get a friend to come over and beat on the drums a bit while you tweak the mic placements? Makes it a bit easier if you can just worry about moving the microphones around and checking the monitors in real-time. Better yet, two friends? If you have a buddy moving a mic around while another is wailing away, then you can hear the " sweet spot " a bit easier.

Good luck and have fun.

V.

[nopainkiller]

I do not have two matched mics for two overheads. I was thinking of getting a preamp so I can to the two toms through the preamp, and then do kick, snare and overhead for 4 tracks. Any tips on mic placement?? Does it have to do with cardoroid pattern? No tips on EQing in??

I cannot get a friend to do it because the tascam is really 4 or 5 feet away. Even if I got headphones it might not work. I just wanna get it down, and write it all down so I don't have to figure it all out again.

Also, compression on snare and kick??

[Dogman]

If you can record dry, then eq later, it will save you headaches.

[nopainkiller]

Ok, I figure that's what I'll do. But any tips or techniques on mic placement? It's a little mic, that clamps onto the snares drums rim. Should I have the mic angled down straight at the drums? or higher and a little away from the drum? I have it angled at 45 degrees 1 and a half inches over the rim pointing at the center.

Should I use the larger diaphragm mic for the overhead or the smaller one???? For the overhead I should ahve it a little behind the kit, rite?

[Dogman]

Originally Posted by nopainkiller

Ok, I figure that's what I'll do. But any tips or techniques on mic placement? It's a little mic, that clamps onto the snares drums rim. Should I have the mic angled down straight at the drums? or higher and a little away from the drum? I have it angled at 45 degrees 1 and a half inches over the rim pointing at the center.

Should I use the larger diaphragm mic for the overhead or the smaller one???? For the overhead I should ahve it a little behind the kit, rite?

With what you have, I'd point the snare mic towards the center of the snare...at where you hit it. A few inches away from the head should be a decent starting point. You might look at the Recorderman method and Glyn Johns method for mic'ing. Go to youtube and search both...there's some good videos that help see the placement. If you are only going to use one OH, try and center it over the kit....right over the snare to center that, and the rest of the kit would be sort of naturally panned. Or use both mics...see what happens.

[ElectricBlu]

The EQ is a hassle but to get a good kick sound you may have to do these steps, it worked for me...

1.)Make your Kick sound good to you, tune it up, put a pillow or a blanket in it, anything to make it sound better, that will be a good start.

2.) If you can, there's a cheap hole cutter on Musicians Friend... Look at pics on the internet on where to cut the hole, hell, cut it your self, but make sure it will fit your kick drum mic...

3.)Once it sounds good, find the sweet spot on the kick drum if you didn't cut the hole, if you did, stick the mic in the hole not to bury the whole thing but get the mic in there...

4.) EQ.... uh... kill some high end and boost the low end a bit, that will make it sound more punchy and less like a timpani . Also, I don't know if it's hype of not, but Earthworks make a Bass EQ inline preamp thing that sounds like it might be cool... it's like $120$ though

Hope I helped, Honestly, I'm still having a hard time with the drumset as a whole, but I got the bass drum....

OH!!!!
and don't forget to turn that signal down, it will be really strong espicially if you put your mic in the hole turn it all the way down and then bring it up slow and level it with everything else... If you have a -10 db or -20 db pad on you recorder, use it

Does everyone else agree on all this? Eh?

Anyways, hope I helped...
The Electric Blu Studio

[Greg_L]

Originally Posted by ElectricBlu

4.) EQ.... uh... kill some high end and boost the low end a bit, that will make it sound more punchy and less like a timpani . Also, I don't know if it's hype of not, but Earthworks make a Bass EQ inline preamp thing that sounds like it might be cool... it's like $120$ though

I totally disagree with this. I never have to boost the lows on my kick. I usually cut a scoop out around 200-500 and only slightly boost the highs. Boosting the lows usually results in a muddy, undefined kick. It's a kick drum. It should have enough lows on it's own. If your kick is sounding like a timpani then you need to tune it better.

[Russtopher]

Search this forum for Recorderman and Glyn Johns techniques. Try both. Decide which you like better. I believe the long fantastic thread was titled something like "3 mic technique" or something along those lines.

I use 2 unmatched mics as the overheads when recording with 4 mics and I've never had an issue with them sounding "different" from each other. Don't worry about that - just read up, play with placement, and tweak EQ from there. EQing after the fact is usually best, but you know what you want "your sound" to be better than we do.

[Steve Moser]

A good sounding recording is only going to be as good as the input signal.

The signal starts with the instrument. You will save yourself a lot of time and headaches if your drums sound good. Then it's acoustics. Do your drums sound good in the room? If so, you're on to

Microphones. You've already heard a lot of opinions on mics, but a Shure SM57 on the snare will never fail you. I've heard great drum kit mixes from using nothing but 57s on the entire kit. Sennheiser 421s are fine choices for the toms, and even the kick. I used a 421 on my kick for many years.

Then, it's recording and mixing. That's where it gets tough if you make it tough. Try to remember that if it's a good sound to begin with, it shouldn't need a lot of EQ or effects to make it sound good.

End point: If it sounds good, it will record well.

[nopainkiller]

Hah those 421s are like 400 bucks a pop!! I have CADs and Nadys. And one radioshack! I actually do have a 421 senheisser, it was a hand-me-down from another band. Its broken, I'm pretty sure. Don't get much bass, just all the treble and high end sounds. It's weird. I've treid messing with the bass switch thing, it doesn't do anything noticable. My ears arent that bad. Anyway, I have two condensser mics, one it a large diaphragm, other is a small one. I'm thinkin I'll mic the other side of the room witht he large one, and right above the drums for overhead with the small one. I have the snare and kick miced with the CAD drum mics. I could try to record with both mics on the overhead, but I don't even have another mic stand!!

No other suggestions on EQ before? "cut a scoop"? My tascam has a high, and a low. Then it has two controls for the middle. One sets what you cut, and the other, how much u cut it. The first starts at 250 or 200, and then goes to 5k. You say I should turn it all the way left, as low as it'll go, and then cut it a little? "cut a little scoop"? Any other tips like that for snare or overheads?? My room is pretty small, so I'm trying to get the clearest sound. Cheap mics, cheap drums, small room, cheap studio. Good drummer, tho. Drums are tuned.

[RAMI]

Originally Posted by nopainkiller

Hah those 421s are like 400 bucks a pop!! I have CADs and Nadys. And one radioshack! I actually do have a 421 senheisser, it was a hand-me-down from another band. Its broken, I'm pretty sure. Don't get much bass, just all the treble and high end sounds. It's weird. I've treid messing with the bass switch thing, it doesn't do anything noticable. My ears arent that bad. Anyway, I have two condensser mics, one it a large diaphragm, other is a small one. I'm thinkin I'll mic the other side of the room witht he large one, and right above the drums for overhead with the small one. I have the snare and kick miced with the CAD drum mics. I could try to record with both mics on the overhead, but I don't even have another mic stand!!

No other suggestions on EQ before? "cut a scoop"? My tascam has a high, and a low. Then it has two controls for the middle. One sets what you cut, and the other, how much u cut it. The first starts at 250 or 200, and then goes to 5k. You say I should turn it all the way left, as low as it'll go, and then cut it a little? "cut a little scoop"? Any other tips like that for snare or overheads?? My room is pretty small, so I'm trying to get the clearest sound. Cheap mics, cheap drums, small room, cheap studio. Good drummer, tho. Drums are tuned.

Dude, you said you have shitty mics. And it's obvious you don't have a lot of experience micing drums. There's nothing wrong with that. You can only hope to get the best sound from your room, drums and mics. Nobody can tell you how to EQ YOUR set-up. Play around with mic placements and fiddle with your knobs until you get the best sound. Nobody can give you some secret EQ-ing technique.

You got great advice in this thread:

Record flat, EQ later.

Get your drums to sound as good as possible before putting a mic anywhere near them.

Look up the "Recorderman" and "Glyn Johns" technique.

Here's another one:

Go into the "Studio Building and Display" Forum on this site and learn about treating your room. It's probably as, if not more, important than the other tips I mentioned above.


That's about all you can do.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by RAMI

Dude, you said you have shitty mics. And it's obvious you don't have a lot of experience micing drums. There's nothing wrong with that. You can only hope to get the best sound from your room, drums and mics. Nobody can tell you how to EQ YOUR set-up. Play around with mic placements and fiddle with your knobs until you get the best sound. Nobody can give you some secret EQ-ing technique.

You got great advice in this thread:

Record flat, EQ later.

Get your drums to sound as good as possible before putting a mic anywhere near them.

Look up the "Recorderman" and "Glyn Johns" technique.

Here's another one:

Go into the "Studio Building and Display" Forum on this site and learn about treating your room. It's probably as, if not more, important than the other tips I mentioned above.




That's about all you can do.

AMEN! Good advice to find a starting point. Great advice in fact. Use "google" to your advantage. Learning to tune your drums should be the most basic starting place.

[nopainkiller]

okok but nobody answered some of the questions I still need answered! Like is a larger diaphragm mic better for micing OH?? Am I in danger of damaging it?

Anyway, I'll prolly have to wait till I get new heads for my toms and kick. I put on a new snare head, and everything sounds crapy compared to it now.

[RAMI]

......you're welcome..........................

[Russtopher]

Originally Posted by RAMI

......you're welcome..........................

It's pretty much the same everywhere..... "I wanna know X Y and Z but I won't like your answer and I'll complain and want to know more!! I don't want to experiment and I have no idea what a search feature is!!!!!111!!"