Recording bass direct.

[Dmeek]

I`ve been trying to record my bass direct & am havin some trouble. Recently i started recording using a pod x3 live to record the bass & it sounds great. My only problem is that it seems to lack low back bone. Even sub bass sounds are empty. I`m running through a whammy, Wah & then the Pod X3, could the other pedals be affecting the sound? I`m sure its something i can fix & am hoping someone can shed some light for me.

[Farview]

You can figure it out by the process of elimination. Start by plugging the bass directly into your interface. Is there any sub low end?

Then plug the bass into the pod. Is there any low end?

Add the whammy pedal. Is there any low end?

You get the idea.

If you have active pickups, you should be fine plugging straight into the line input of your interface. With passive pickups, that might sound thin and weak. But there should be no problem with the bass pod. (is it the bass version of the pod, not the guitar version. That would make a difference)

[Roguetitan]

Originally Posted by Dmeek

I`ve been trying to record my bass direct & am havin some trouble. Recently i started recording using a pod x3 live to record the bass & it sounds great. My only problem is that it seems to lack low back bone. Even sub bass sounds are empty. I`m running through a whammy, Wah & then the Pod X3, could the other pedals be affecting the sound? I`m sure its something i can fix & am hoping someone can shed some light for me.

you'll need a preamp with that or an active DI if you don't have Active pups.
the wah and whammy will suck the low end right out of your bass

[Dmeek]

I have the "Pod X3 Live" it does bass & guitar. I`ve tried plugging in directly but it sounds so different...I havnt tried running through without the whammy or Wah in hopes i could figure out a way using that setup I also considered trying that. I play guitar through it as well & have one cable going to my Guitar amp (1/4") & another cable plugging directly into my interface for recording bass (fed through a XLR cable). I`m hoping i can just swap guitars & change presets without having to unhook anything other than guitars. My bass has active pickups but it seems a shame to have to live without the bass modeling. I am recording using a "MOTU 8 Pre"..... Oh & thanks for the reply

[Dmeek]

Originally Posted by Roguetitan

you'll need a preamp with that or an active DI if you don't have Active pups.
the wah and whammy will suck the low end right out of your bass

Do you mean the Wah & Whammy will suck the low end out of the bass regardless of if i have active pickups? or only if i don`t have active picks?

[Roguetitan]

Originally Posted by Dmeek

Do you mean the Wah & Whammy will suck the low end out of the bass regardless of if i have active pickups? or only if i don`t have active picks?

it is going to suck a whole lot less low end with active pups but it will still suck a little low end regardless but not nearly as much as a passive bass.

a preamp will help enormously if you have a passive bass.

this is what I would do is record with no effects and edit in the effects in the recorded track.
that way there is no signal loss.

[Dmeek]

Not that im doubting what your saying,but do you have a scientific explanation so i can better understand how to avoid such things? Is it simply because using guitar pedals on bass somehow converts something over & the lows are lost because of improper compensation? I dont know much about impedance issues, is it something like that going on? I want to use the Pod X3 effects & modeling if possible. Thanks for the info

[Rokket]

Originally Posted by Dmeek

Not that im doubting what your saying,but do you have a scientific explanation so i can better understand how to avoid such things? Is it simply because using guitar pedals on bass somehow converts something over & the lows are lost because of improper compensation? I dont know much about impedance issues, is it something like that going on? I want to use the Pod X3 effects & modeling if possible. Thanks for the info

Do you have to use the pedals to get the sound you are going for? Or could you perhaps record without them and add the effects in later in the mix?

The whammy and wah pedals work by rapid changes in tone. You can almost duplicate a wah pedal by twisting your guitar's tone knob rapidly back and forth as you play. So it's going to affect your bottom end in that respect.

There are plugins that you can manipulate that can duplicate the desired effects you want to put on the bass. Not only that, but it's a good idea to track as dry as possible. Once the effects are recorded, they are there, and can't be undone without retracking. You may find that they add mud to the mix, or the swells conflict with the tempo, then you're stuck.

Try tracking dry and then adding your effects.

[Dmeek]

I like to play to the sound of the effect or tone because often i write riffs by layering instruments & improvising during the recording process ( much like someone would do with delay on voice or Guitar). Different tones help inspire me & lead me in different directions where if i write without effects i often write in a way that doesn`t need effects because i write within the limitations of the sound im dealing with. Sometimes when recording Vocals I sing dry then add reverb later but when singing with reverb on my voice & improvising, I find myself following the effect to some other place & getting different & surprising results. I find it easier & more efficient to emotionally respond to a tone or effect than to try to find the environment or effect afterwards because i sometimes lose touch with my original intentions after i get mixed up in what im doing. I`ll listen & just hear some ambiguous noise & think "that sounds lame!"

[rayc]

Does the bass sound gutless with the Wah & whammy in bypass/turned off?
You know how those two work I assume - sweeping across to boost the high end etc.
You REALLY ought to experiment with just your modeller or a DI or a pre until you get the best sound you can from your bass & then introduce the effects to the chain.
the order of effects is significant too.
You'll have to find a leprechaun or geni it seems as you're not really prepared to do much to get a good sound - miracles, pots of gold & three wishes are the way to proceed with your ethic.

[Roguetitan]

Dude I am not a scientist I can only tell you my experience with these external effects and the solution I was able to come up with.
Basically what is happening is with a wah or whammy the signal is being minipulated which weakens the audio signal not to mention a bass is a low frequency signal to begin with therefore a pre amp, an active bass or an active DI will help to boost and regulate the signal as it is being processed.
that is about all I can give you man.

Like I said you may want to try a VST or DX effects after you record
but that is not going to help your situation for live sound so you may want to invest in a pre amp if you don't already have one.

[Roguetitan]

Originally Posted by Rokket

Do you have to use the pedals to get the sound you are going for? Or could you perhaps record without them and add the effects in later in the mix?

The whammy and wah pedals work by rapid changes in tone. You can almost duplicate a wah pedal by twisting your guitar's tone knob rapidly back and forth as you play. So it's going to affect your bottom end in that respect.

There are plugins that you can manipulate that can duplicate the desired effects you want to put on the bass. Not only that, but it's a good idea to track as dry as possible. Once the effects are recorded, they are there, and can't be undone without retracking. You may find that they add mud to the mix, or the swells conflict with the tempo, then you're stuck.

Try tracking dry and then adding your effects.

Ya

[tc4b]

If you have active pickups, check to make sure you have a fresh battery. If you're leaving the thing hooked up constantly, it could be draining the 9v in your bass.

[Farview]

Originally Posted by Dmeek

Not that im doubting what your saying,but do you have a scientific explanation so i can better understand how to avoid such things? Is it simply because using guitar pedals on bass somehow converts something over & the lows are lost because of improper compensation?

The 'low end' of a guitar is generally in the 150hz range. (stringed instruments tend to have the most power an octave up from the fundamental note) Most guitar pedals take that into account when they are designed, and don't worry much about the frequencies below 100hz.

The whammy pedal is made by digitech, the name alone sucks out low end from any signal you put through it. The wah pedal is an effect that messes with the midrange and will suck a little low end from a guitar, but it is much more noticable on bass.

You might look into getting an A/B box and wiring it up to bypass the pedals. A cheaper and easier solution would be to just use the cable that goes between the pedals and the Pod when you are playing bass. When you put the bass down, plug that cable into the output of the last pedal and plug the other cable into the guitar. (you could even leave the guitar plugged in)

[Dmeek]

Originally Posted by Roguetitan

pre amp, an active bass or an active DI will help to boost and regulate the signal as it is being processed.
that is about all I can give you man.

Is the pod X3 live acting as a preamp or DI?

I`ve heard of pedals that help correct signal problems. If anyone knows of a something that can prevent the problem i`m having while still using all my effects please let me know. Otherwise i`ll have to obviously do something different....Thanks

[Farview]

Originally Posted by Dmeek

Is the pod X3 live acting as a preamp or DI?

Both

Originally Posted by Dmeek

I`ve heard of pedals that help correct signal problems. If anyone knows of a something that can prevent the problem i`m having while still using all my effects please let me know. Otherwise i`ll have to obviously do something different....Thanks

If a pedal, like the whammy pedal, doesn't pass all the low end, there is no way to put it back once it's gone. There is a reason why there are wah pedals that are made for bass.

[mixsit]

Purely anecdotal perhaps but your post struck a recent chord-
Band was in, first day for the basics we ran our old SWR Studio 220 line out to the a/d. Second day they wanted to retrack the bass but the SWR was out on a gig so he ran through the little Bass Pod.
Fast forward to mix time, something seems missing on the 'retracks- sub foundation is missing. Hmm. No problem, just boost, sweep- but it's like the 30-50 range just is not really there.
Weird, I don't know, just saying. We did them again with the SWR.
Don't know if it survived mp3- 'Blind and 'One Foot
http://www.myspace.com/lanefour

[starbuck26]

in my band we refer to the bass as the retarded guitar. it has big thick strings for big, thick neanderthal fingers, and only four of them at that. every now and then the retarded guitar player gets a wild look in his eye and wants to try a flanger or a phaser or some other shit... we remind him that he's a neanderthal, and that effects of that nature are better left to guitar players, who are, of course, infinitely more dignified and sonically refined. plus we get all the chicks.

for real, though, IMHO you should put the bass whammy in a shoebox and bury it in the backyard.

[therage!]

Originally Posted by Dmeek

I`ve been trying to record my bass direct & am havin some trouble. Recently i started recording using a pod x3 live to record the bass & it sounds great. My only problem is that it seems to lack low back bone. Even sub bass sounds are empty. I`m running through a whammy, Wah & then the Pod X3, could the other pedals be affecting the sound? I`m sure its something i can fix & am hoping someone can shed some light for me.

I've also got an X3L and it sounds real nice for Bass. No low end problems at all. Plug the Bass in directly to the X3 and let us know how it sounds.

[Dmeek]

Originally Posted by therage!

I've also got an X3L and it sounds real nice for Bass. No low end problems at all. Plug the Bass in directly to the X3 and let us know how it sounds.

Ok, I will

[Dmeek]

I just tried plugging straight into My Pod X3 Directly & compared it with the same bass line done through the Whammy & Wah. I recorded them back to back & i must say though hardly noticeable it defiantly changed the sound a bit. I had to listen back & forth & it was more like something you can feel a difference in than hear. The real test will be when & record it along with guitars & drums. Then I`ll be able to hear if it fills the space properly or not. I am thinking I`ll probably just get a "Tech 21 SansAmp Bass Driver DI". It seems to have a great track record (no pun intended) & some albums with bass tone i really like have used it. In the past i was just recording direct & using plug-ins as suggested. Though I would like the convenience of modeling I`m not willing to sacrifice sound for it. I`ll let you guys know how it sounds along with Guitars & Drums

[Farview]

What amp model were you using? That will make a difference.

[Dmeek]

They all lacked the earthy low tone. Even sub bass sounded hollow

[Farview]

I've never used the X3, but I've gotten some good bass tones from the Bass Pod pro.

The reason that people like the Tech 21 stuff is because it has a big hump around 100hz. This is true with everything they make (that I have tried) Including the PSA-1, the bass amps, and the DI box.

I'm not trying to argue for the X3. If you are unhappy with it, get something else.

[Roguetitan]

Originally Posted by Dmeek

I am thinking I`ll probably just get a "Tech 21 SansAmp Bass Driver DI". It seems to have a great track record (no pun intended) & some albums with bass tone i really like have used it. In the past i was just recording direct & using plug-ins as suggested. Though I would like the convenience of modeling I`m not willing to sacrifice sound for it. I`ll let you guys know how it sounds along with Guitars & Drums

you are on the right track now. The pod just don't have what it takes for bass is what I was trying to say all along without getting flamed for it. I figured if I just keep my mouth shut long enough eventually you will figure it out on your own and you did.

The Sansamp Bass Driver DI is great for live sound use as well the only thing better than the Tech 21 would be this


once you get the Sansamp plug the wah and whammy back in and see what you get