humbucker in P90 slot?

[cbsc]

Although I am pretty sure, I wanted to double check that a humbucker pickup will not fit into a P90 cavity because the slot is not wide enough-- is this correct? I am having trouble finding info online and I don't have a humbucker to measure.
Thanks C

[Zaphod B]

No, a humbucker will not fit into a P90 space. The short dimension on a humbucker is larger than the short dimension on a P90, although I believe the width is about the same.

You can install a P94 in a P90 space. A P94 is a P90-sized humbucker.

[notCardio]

You can put a regular humbucker in a P90 slot in, oh, let's say, the bridge position by hacking up your guitar.

[Milnoque]

The Les Paul Deluxe Mini-Humbucker fits.

[notCardio]

Good to know.

Without any woodwork?

[Anfontan]

Originally Posted by notCardio

Good to know.

Without any woodwork?

If I recall correctly, the mini-humbucker was originally mounted in the plastic cover from a P90 pickup-the P90 plastic covers were left over from the early Les Pauls. The centers were routed out and they were used as the pickup rings.

[Unsprung]

Originally Posted by Zaphod B

You can install a P94 in a P90 space. A P94 is a P90-sized humbucker.

Actually, a P94 is a humbucker sized P90, so it's not going to fit in the same space as a regular P90.

Matt

[antichef]

Yeah, a P-94 is indeed a humbucker sized P-90-like pickup. I got two of them and replaced the crappy humbuckers in one of my guitars.

The P-90 is narrower in the short dimension and longer in the long dimension than humbuckers. You'd have to do some routing to make either fit in the other's slot.

But I have to ask -- why would you want to? I'd consider getting a guitar with humbuckers and keeping the P-90 one intact if that's an option. I really like the P-94s.

edit:
I *think* these Rio Grande Baby Buckers would fit:
http://www.riograndepickups.com/scar...or+P%2D90s

I haven't heard/played them, but I have Rio Grande humbuckers (Texas and Barbeque) in a couple of my guitars, and they sound really good. The factory is down the street from me - one day I sort of just walked in and they showed me around, including the place where they do the pickup winding - it was cool

edit again: but really - consider keeping the P-90s

[Milnoque]

A littls history,

The Mini-Humbuckers in the Gibson Les Paul Deluxe were designed by Epiphone before Gibson bought the brand. It was used in many of their fine jazz guitars of the fifties. This was not a pickup designed to fit in a P-90 slot,. it was designed to be a great pickup in it's own right. They are brighter with less gain than a standard humbucker.

When Gibson re-issued the original Les Paul design in the late sixties they still had some bodies that were made prior to the switch to humbuckers in '57. someone realized that they could put their existing stock of Epiphone pickups, P-90 covers, and unfinished bodies to profitable use. Thus, the Les Paul Deluxe was born.

In my opinion these are terrific pickups with a voice all their own. Pete Townsend among others thought so too.

[Zaphod B]

Originally Posted by notCardio

You can put a regular humbucker in a P90 slot in, oh, let's say, the bridge position by hacking up your guitar.

Who in the world would want to do that?

[steve.h]

Originally Posted by Zaphod B

Who in the world would want to do that?

The words "can" and "should", in certain contexts, should really be bolded necessarily

[jpoprock]

Originally Posted by cbsc

Although I am pretty sure, I wanted to double check that a humbucker pickup will not fit into a P90 cavity because the slot is not wide enough-- is this correct? I am having trouble finding info online and I don't have a humbucker to measure.
Thanks C

It can be done. I can't post links to other sites until I have 5 posts, this is my first as I've have been lurking for years!

skguitar.com/SKGS/sk/pickups.htm This guy makes one, as do others. His are hand wound too. $200 for one of these though. And in the Les Paul Forum, a user posted pix that I can't show you yet, and says this about how to do it:

"Don't know if this has ever been discussed here before but just thought I'd post it for informational purposes! Long ago when everyone was routing out their P-90 or mini humbucker guitars to install full size humbuckers I came up with an idea that I've never seen anyone else do. I wanted the humbucker sound but DID NOT want to route out my guitar. I'm very annal about keeping my guitars as clean as possible and figured out a way to install full size humbuckers WITHOUT ROUTING. You simply file off the side flanges of the metal frame on the bottom of the pickup and slightly file down your lower outside edges of your bobbins. You then drill two very tiny holes in the bottom of the pickup routes and use a couple tuner screws to secure the pickup directly to the guitar. Put some closed cell foam between the pickup and the guitar so you will have some height adjustment. If you don't want to drill the small holes directly in the guitar you can drill and tap the thin metal strips that hold the P-90's on to the guitar and attach the humbucker directly to the metal strip. That's a Duncan JB in the bridge position. I just wish I wouldn't have put the grovers on this guitar. Oh well!! Hope this info is usefull to someone! BTW, I know that the bridge looks terrible. I'll be changing it back to the wrap tail next string change."

To me though, having a really great sounding P90 is part of the fun. Everyone has HB's. You'd be taking away something special about the guitar. I'd rather find an awesome sounding P90 to put back in it, than to go this route. That's just me though.

J

[Zaphod B]

Originally Posted by Unsprung

Actually, a P94 is a humbucker sized P90, so it's not going to fit in the same space as a regular P90.

Matt

Oh, shoot, you're right - is it a P-100 that's a P-90 sized humbucker?

[jpoprock]

Also, after some deep digging, I found this page...

jt30.com/jt30page/micKguitars/Fit-HB-in-P90-hole.html

[lpdeluxe]

Originally Posted by Milnoque

A littls history,

The Mini-Humbuckers in the Gibson Les Paul Deluxe were designed by Epiphone before Gibson bought the brand. It was used in many of their fine jazz guitars of the fifties. This was not a pickup designed to fit in a P-90 slot,. it was designed to be a great pickup in it's own right. They are brighter with less gain than a standard humbucker.

When Gibson re-issued the original Les Paul design in the late sixties they still had some bodies that were made prior to the switch to humbuckers in '57. someone realized that they could put their existing stock of Epiphone pickups, P-90 covers, and unfinished bodies to profitable use. Thus, the Les Paul Deluxe was born.

In my opinion these are terrific pickups with a voice all their own. Pete Townsend among others thought so too.

Those weren't left-over bodies. Gibson did not have an inventory left over when they switched to the SG-style.

But when they decided to reissue the LP in 1968, they were basically clueless about which version of the LP people wanted. These were the early Norlin years, Ted McCarty had left a couple of years earlier, and Maurice Berlin had been moved into a meaningless job. Management, in short, was in the same position as CBS when they bought Fender: full of hubris but way short of any knowledge of guitars or the market.

So they offered two LPs: the Custom, with full-size pickups, and the Deluxe, with P-90s. When the dealers clamored for a humbucker standard, Norlin looked for a cheap fix and Jim Deurloo discovered that the Epi mini-humbuckers would fit in the P90 rout. It took a while to get the tooling right, and a lot of the early ones (including mine) have creme plastic "goof hiders" around the pickups to hide tooling marks.

This led to other anomalies (the peculiar mounting system for the minis, for example) and did not quiet the true believers, who were paying big bucks for the "real" thing -- the full size humbucker. As Milnoque noted, the minis have a sound of their own. A Deluxe is the only LP I've ever owned, or expect to own, because to my ear they are greatly superior to the full-size model.

Which didn't stop me from recently trading for an Epi Sheraton II and ordering a set of Seymour Duncans for it. Dispassionate research will follow.

[schulteboy]

If yer looking to kill that 60cycle hum, then theres the P100, which is a "stacked" P90. Two coils are stacked on top of each other and cancel the hum. I've tried a Seymour Duncan "stacked" P90 and didn't like it. Output ws too low. Too thin for my taste. I suggest looking into a mini humbucker if you want the humbucker sound without ripping up your guitar. Also, Dimarzio makes P90-sized humbuckers (DLX90). I've never heard those.

[Milnoque]

Originally Posted by lpdeluxe

Those weren't left-over bodies. Gibson did not have an inventory left over when they switched to the SG-style.

But when they decided to reissue the LP in 1968, they were basically clueless about which version of the LP people wanted. These were the early Norlin years, Ted McCarty had left a couple of years earlier, and Maurice Berlin had been moved into a meaningless job. Management, in short, was in the same position as CBS when they bought Fender: full of hubris but way short of any knowledge of guitars or the market.

So they offered two LPs: the Custom, with full-size pickups, and the Deluxe, with P-90s. When the dealers clamored for a humbucker standard, Norlin looked for a cheap fix and Jim Deurloo discovered that the Epi mini-humbuckers would fit in the P90 rout. It took a while to get the tooling right, and a lot of the early ones (including mine) have creme plastic "goof hiders" around the pickups to hide tooling marks.

This led to other anomalies (the peculiar mounting system for the minis, for example) and did not quiet the true believers, who were paying big bucks for the "real" thing -- the full size humbucker. As Milnoque noted, the minis have a sound of their own. A Deluxe is the only LP I've ever owned, or expect to own, because to my ear they are greatly superior to the full-size model.

Which didn't stop me from recently trading for an Epi Sheraton II and ordering a set of Seymour Duncans for it. Dispassionate research will follow.

You may be right.

I had the opportunity to meet Julius Bellson in about 1973 when I was working at a music store that sold Gibson guitars. He was a good friend of our rep. At the time Gibson was working to increase sales of the LP Deluxe model. One of the things he covered was the history I related above. According to him, The very first examples (we had one of these in stock) had a one piece slab of mahogany for the body. These came from existing '50s inventory. The first new production bodies used two layers of mahogany with veneer sandwiched in between. Later ones (I believe) returned to one piece of mahogany for the bodies. Either way the necks were new production. This version of the story is consistent with the way Gibson had done things in the past many times.

Julius Bellson was the official Gibson historian and had written a couple of books on the subject.

If your version is accurate, it wouldn't be the first time Mr. Bellson was proven to be wrong. The Historian job was not his first choice.