Indie deal

[Seal7music]

My band was just offered an indie deal. We have 90 days to complete our CD after signing. Do we need to go into a pro studio or is it possible to buy our own equipment and do all except the mastering ourselves...if so..any suggestion on what recorders will do the job? Other equipmnent needed to help? Any other suggestions? You can check out our current recording at myspace.com/seal7music

[WhiteStrat]

Originally Posted by Seal7music

My band was just offered an indie deal. We have 90 days to complete our CD after signing. Do we need to go into a pro studio or is it possible to buy our own equipment and do all except the mastering ourselves...if so..any suggestion on what recorders will do the job? Other equipmnent needed to help? Any other suggestions? You can check out our current recording at myspace.com/seal7music

I know indie is well, indie, but they signed you and have no say in how you produce your CD? I guess they've just agreed to market whatever you turn over to them? In any case, if you never seriously recorded before, I think 90 days might be a bit tough for your first time out.

In a well equipped studio & in the hands of a good engineer--you could do it in a week if you've really ready with your material. But there are so many variables to recording that if you don't already have the gear, and know how to best use it...well, you get my point.

(But if you're in the St. Louis area, I'll record you--if the price is right! )

[pohaku]

Granted that this is a Home Recording board, but if you don't already have some significant experience recording yourselves, now is NOT the time to learn IMHO. As you only have a 90 day window, unless you have some significant recording chops, I'd go shopping for a studio with an experienced engineer. Where are you located? That might help with responses as well.

[drossfile]

Originally Posted by Seal7music

My band was just offered an indie deal. We have 90 days to complete our CD after signing. Do we need to go into a pro studio or is it possible to buy our own equipment and do all except the mastering ourselves...if so..any suggestion on what recorders will do the job? Other equipmnent needed to help? Any other suggestions? You can check out our current recording at myspace.com/seal7music

most of us here have spent years collecting gear and developing skills, so you'd need a truckload of beginner's luck in order to build a decent studio in 3 months, much less learn how to get decent sound out of it.

i assume the deal is distribution only? it seems odd that they'd agree to distribute an album without having any idea as to how good the quality would be. my friend's band got an indie deal about 10 years ago, and it was a VERY small, local label (rubber city records). the label booked and paid for the studio time to cut 2 songs for a 7" vinyl single and distributed it. are you sure your label isn't doing something similar? it just seems so strange...if you don't mind me asking, what exactly does the deal entail?

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Originally Posted by WhiteStrat

I know indie is well, indie, but they signed you and have no say in how you produce your CD?

Originally Posted by drossfile

it seems odd that they'd agree to distribute an album without having any idea as to how good the quality would be.

It's not all that unusual these days for a label to give a band a small budget to use to create the CD, and it's up to the band to decide how (or if) to spend it.

The catch is that the band has to re-pay the label for those costs - either out of their own cut of the sales revenues from the CD, or if the CD doesn't sell, out of their pockets; it's kind of like a no-interest or low-interest loan. That puts the onus on the band to not only keep their costs down, but to prodcue something that will actually sell at least enough copies to cover their costs.

Back to the OP, spend your money on a real studio and on advertising. There are people who have been at this for 90 months that still are not ready to make a proper album. Book the last week of your 90 days for the studio and spend the previous 83 days band practicing.

G.

[RAMI]

Originally Posted by Seal7music

My band was just offered an indie deal.

Details??????????

[pipelineaudio]

Hopefully this isnt another statue records, jetspeed records, bodog, "you pay us to sign you" thing

[RAMI]

Originally Posted by pipelineaudio

Hopefully this isnt another statue records,

It's pronounced "statute"....or "thermometer"...I have no idea what I'm talking about.

[Seal7music]

Thank you all for your suggestions...

Originally Posted by Seal7music

Is it possible to buy our own equipment and do all except the mastering ourselves...if so..any suggestion on what recorders will do the job? Other equipmnent needed to help? Any other suggestions? You can check out our current recording at myspace.com/seal7music

The label did hear some recordings we had done ourself already. If you have the time please take a listen to the recording we already did ourselves and hopefully that will answer more about whether or not we can do it. They are here;

myspace.com/seal7music

Regardless if we go into a studio or do it ourself I understand that we still have to be well rehearsed on a professional level. The label has not asked for any money that I know of, they are offerering a developement deal. They are going to provide a tour bus,food and lodging, medical/dental insurance...and put us on tour for 13 dates with a very large established band (Third Day) that is signed to a major deal, and then 12 more with another after that. They are going to pay us royalties out of CD sells and downloads, let us do our own merchandising. We get a portion of the ticket sells on tour, and we have the freedom to book shows in between the dates they book us for. Although we will only have 90 days after we sign, we are fairly tight and could pull it off in a studio or on our own. The recordings we have posted were done on a 16 track digital Korg, and also need mastering, however, I know that particular recording is not good enough. The label has asked us to re-record them, as well as more songs and only give them the raw tracks, and let them do the final mastering. They are going to distrubute the songs all over internet and get us all kinds of exposure as well as radio play. We also have our lawyers involved in which the record label had no problem with. So, my question now is, is it possible to buy something like a 24 track recorder, record the raw tracks, with the band being totally tight...and send them? If so, whick kind of recorder do you suggest, and other additional equipment or tips for getting that professional sound at home? We have a huge warehouse that our drummer owns, so we have plenty of room to make a studio also...comments?

Thanks again...

[RAMI]

Thanx for the explanation. I don't know enough about that side of the music biz to say weather it's a good deal or not, so I can only wish you the best of luck. I figure just getting Dental Insurance sounds pretty good.

One thing though......If you're giving them raw tracks, then they have to mix it as well as master it. Unless, by raw tracks, you mean the 2 track master of each song.

P.S. Went and listened to your music. It's good, man.

[Daisy]

Originally Posted by Seal7music

The label did hear some recordings we had done ourself already. If you have the time please take a listen to the recording we already did ourselves and hopefully that will answer more about whether or not we can do it. They are here;

myspace.com/seal7music

You guys sound pretty good. I like the harmonies -- kind of Alice-in-chains ish.

Guitar sounds good.

Drums kinda' suck, though. And that's pretty important. I would highly, highly recommend at the very least spending your money on a good studio and having your drums professionally done; even have someone mix them for you.

Then take those home and overdub the rest of the tracks. That way you can take your time obsessing over all of the overdubs on the guitars and vocals, etc.

That might be an approach that could work out for you.

[WhiteStrat]

Originally Posted by Daisy

You guys sound pretty good. I like the harmonies -- kind of Alice-in-chains ish.

Guitar sounds good.

Drums kinda' suck, though. And that's pretty important. I would highly, highly recommend at the very least spending your money on a good studio and having your drums professionally done; even have someone mix them for you.

Then take those home and overdub the rest of the tracks. That way you can take your time obsessing over all of the overdubs on the guitars and vocals, etc.

That might be an approach that could work out for you.

+1 for this suggestion. I listened to your songs and agree. The drums are the weak point. They're also the hardest to fix after tracking. So if you nailed the drum sound in a studio, and then did the rest at home--it could be a great solution.

[LeeRosario]

Originally Posted by Seal7music

My band was just offered an indie deal. We have 90 days to complete our CD after signing. Do we need to go into a pro studio or is it possible to buy our own equipment and do all except the mastering ourselves...if so..any suggestion on what recorders will do the job? Other equipmnent needed to help? Any other suggestions? You can check out our current recording at myspace.com/seal7music

I wouldn't take anything the label says at face value.


You have to see exactly what it is your record contract states about recording costs and advances and how the label will recoupe those costs later on.

You have to see what terms they stated out on how the recording can be made, and how they want it turned in. There's commercially acceptable mixes, which are mixes that are up to standard with all other mixes on the radio and technically acceptable mixes, mixes that technically sound acceptable, but not meaning a good mix. If I was you, I'd work on getting a mix that competes with other radio mixes. Radio is roughly 70% of your business, so logically, you want your mix to sound pretty good just in case you get that airplay. Compact Disks these days seems to be more of a transfer/storage medium than a playback medium.

Yes, people still buy CDs, but the market is very broad and a good mix should be able to stand up well throughout different mediums. Audio streaming, file sharing, radio, internet radio, television audio/video...you've gotta think of all those before recording.

Are you working with any kind of manager or A&R on this? What's the term of the contract? What type of recording does the contract specify? Any details?

More than likely, that advance is going to be paid back by royalties off the album you make.

So not to rain on your parade, but if you make a shitty album and it sells badly, you're in for a very tough ride at the label. Not only for this album, but all subsequent albums.

Labels usually cross collaterlize albums to recoup thier expenses. That means that if you don't make enough to pay back the label on the first album, they will suck your royalties off all subsequent albums until you have paid the debt in full. So it can be a few years before you see any money in your pocket.

In other words, yeah you can take the money and risk recording it yourself. Or you can be smart about it and take the time to understand the contract and do serious research on studios in the area that give quality for price. You might have it in your budget to find a good producer. Anything you can do to make your music more marketable is the way to go. You may end up saving and making more money in the long run because of it.

Remember, any money you spend is money you have to pay back.

Any money you can pocket from that advance will help you stabilize yourself until you get off the ground at the label. So there's a balance. Believe me, it's not called music business for nothing. I'm young, but I've been around the block. This is a very general reply, too. I could literally go on for hundreds of pages...it's what I went to school for.

Regardless if we go into a studio or do it ourself I understand that we still have to be well rehearsed on a professional level. The label has not asked for any money that I know of, they are offerering a developement deal. They are going to provide a tour bus,food and lodging, medical/dental insurance...and put us on tour for 13 dates with a very large established band (Third Day) that is signed to a major deal, and then 12 more with another after that. They are going to pay us royalties out of CD sells and downloads, let us do our own merchandising. We get a portion of the ticket sells on tour, and we have the freedom to book shows in between the dates they book us for. Although we will only have 90 days after we sign, we are fairly tight and could pull it off in a studio or on our own. The recordings we have posted were done on a 16 track digital Korg, and also need mastering, however, I know that particular recording is not good enough. The label has asked us to re-record them, as well as more songs and only give them the raw tracks, and let them do the final mastering. They are going to distrubute the songs all over internet and get us all kinds of exposure as well as radio play. We also have our lawyers involved in which the record label had no problem with. So, my question now is, is it possible to buy something like a 24 track recorder, record the raw tracks, with the band being totally tight...and send them? If so, whick kind of recorder do you suggest, and other additional equipment or tips for getting that professional sound at home? We have a huge warehouse that our drummer owns, so we have plenty of room to make a studio also...comments?

Ok, so from the sound of this, they are going long term with you..potentially. The fact that you tour with a major act dosn't guarantee anything. There are always loop holes in contracts that inevitably cannot be avoided. But that is business between you and your lawyer. You have publishing and distribution issues that can easily shelf your album indefinitely. The main difference between indies and majors is in the distribution. Majors own worldwide distribution.

The fact that the label skims a percentage of tour costs is unfortunate, but it's common. Essentially thats a 360 deal. Considering that tours are 100% recoupable by the label, it's money your ultimately going to pay back.

More than likely, depending on your clout and the label's clout: whats going to happen is that this indie label is going to spend their resources to develop you as an artist (grow your fan base, endorsements, publicity, building your presskit, etc) hence a development deal. Depending on how you do, a major label(s) may scout you out for a time for the possibility of signing.

However, majors do not spend time or money developing new artists, they take mid-level artists with enough clout and build them from there. They let the indie labels spend the money and time to develop the artists for them.

So unless you turn into an Alicia Keys just before getting discovered by Clive Owen, you're waiting in a long line.

I'm only saying to keep your eyes peeled on this. Labels invest money to make money. So if you think your music is worth all that expense (tour bus, insurance, bookings), then stick with the deal. You could grow within this label and move on to a major, you could stay happy at a decent pay within this label, or you could bomb and get stuck with a bad deal within your current contract. This of course has little to do with the recording your asking for. But it's relevant.

Aim to impress your audience and your label. Get a gifted engineer to worry about the recording, you worry about your music.

My advice, find a good reputable studio, get the price knocked down as much as possible and pocket the leftovers. You'll need it.

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Originally Posted by LeeRosario

More than likely, that advance is going to be paid back by royalties off the album you make.

Remember, any money you spend is money you have to pay back.

Any money you can pocket from that advance will help you stabilize yourself until you get off the ground at the label.

This is exactly the kind of deal that (as I understand it, anyway) is fairly common in the indie world. Maybe the OP is fortunate enough to have a different deal, but it'd wise to read and understand the fine print for sure just to see:

The label will typically NOT take a loss on production cost; if they give you an advance or a production budget, it is usually more like a loan than anything. They will get those costs back in revenue *off the top*; any cut you get would be as a percentage of what profits may remain after that, If the revenues fall short, then you'll have to pay back the difference on the "loan" yourself.

You really do need to go at it like a businessperson in that you need to figure out how to get the biggest bang for the least amount of bucks. Just because you have a budget of X doesn't mean you should just spend it. Get creative; get your friends and family to help with the advertising and the advance work on your tour dates, including your independent ones. If you can find a small but quality studio that may barter for your drum sounds; perhaps they'll do it for half price if you offer to do some free AE work for them in return. And so forth.

The less money you spend (without sacrificing necessarily quality), the better off you'll be when the balance sheet is filled out. You'll either have more money to give back to the label instead of your own money, or, if you are successful enough to turn a profit for the label, that is that much more money you have pocked for yourself.

G.

[LeeRosario]

Originally Posted by SouthSIDE Glen

You really do need to go at it like a businessperson in that you need to figure out how to get the biggest bang for the least amount of bucks.



G.

that summarizes this whole shindig.


What most artist don't realize is that when a label says "we are going to get your song on the radio", they fail to mention the fact that it costs ALOT of money to get your song on primetime radio.

Furthurmore, just because the song is on the radio once or twice is not enough. An artist needs heavy rotation to become familiar in the audience mindspace. So unless you have clout or tons of cash to develope clout, it's a waste of money. The point of radio is to sell albums.

And of course, since payola is illegal, labels will pay an independant "contractor" who holds clout within a radio station to get the song on the radio.

The reality with radio airplay is this:

-Most radio stations only add about 3 songs a month to thier playlists.

-Of the hundreds of offers they get, radio programmers will listen to the highest bids or hottest tracks in the market.

-It can cost anywhere from a few thousand to $100,000 to get one song some airplay at a single radio station. That comes back to your royalties.

-That fee however, only "reserves" a possible spot and is not a guarantee. A radio programmer can take the money and say, "yeah sure, I'll play the track 8 times a day for 4 weeks" and only end up playing it once. He has every right to do that, and it happens.



for anyone who is interested, I have good marketing info to keep you updated with the market. This is official stuff that indie and major labels use:

http://www.hitsdailydouble.com/home/home.cgi

http://www.radioandrecords.com/RRWebSite/

Anything an artist can do to track trends will help them understand what is going on in the industry.

[Farview]

Originally Posted by Seal7music

So, my question now is, is it possible to buy something like a 24 track recorder, record the raw tracks, with the band being totally tight...and send them? If so, whick kind of recorder do you suggest, and other additional equipment or tips for getting that professional sound at home? We have a huge warehouse that our drummer owns, so we have plenty of room to make a studio also...comments?

Thanks again...

More tracks aren't really going to make the recording sound better. Most of the all-in-one recorders use data compression to store the recorded tracks. They have crappy mic preamps that can not be bypassed by using the line input. Most of the popular ones have a 24 bit fixed point mix buss which overloads at the drop of a hat. Editing the files is a tedious exercise in hell. And you will still have only 8 mic inputs for the drums.

Even though the stuff on Myspace sounds pretty good, that has more to do with the performance and the song writing, not the actual sound quality of the recording. You guys made a great sounding demo, but it isn't album quality. Getting a Roland 2480 will not get you closer to album quality, a seasoned engineer in a reasonably equipped studio will.

[xstatic]

So who exactly is paying for the recording? From the original posters statements I am not so sure the label is actually forking anything over. I know that I would not put any money out unless I knew how it was going to be spent.

In the end however, no matter who is paying for it you have to ask yourself a couple of questions. First, how much do you care about the band and the music? Second, are you viewing this as a stepping stone, longterm, or just as "cool, it will be fun to do a little tour". If you do take all of this seriously, I would imagine that you would want your product to sound as good as it possibly can. In most every scenario this would entail going to a professional studio and getting the people that know what they are doing to assist you in making the best product you can, even if you are just tracking and the label is sending it to their own mix and master engineers. If the label really is going to promote you, then you want to give them the best possible product to promote. This will benefit both you and them.

In the end, I kind of think the question has already been answered just by the question itself. If you don't already wholeheartedly know the answer to the question, then you probably should not be doing it yourself. In the end you will probably be much happier if you allow a pro to assist you, assuming you pick the right pro

[mrhotapples]

Let me say this: Don't screw around. My band's not even signed to a record label and we have no backing at all, but we're going to record our album, when we're happy with how we play and the songs we have together, in the best place we can get into, mix it ourselves, send it to a few guys and see what they can do and perhaps have it mixed professionally, and then have it mastered and duplicated by the best people we can get. It'll cost a lot of money but we want to be able to look back when we're recording our second album and have all our hopes and dreams and feelings and everything we put into the music we were writing in our infancy be represented well. Sure, the stinky hot garage would be accurate, but I'd much prefer to see us playing a nice AC'd room with 30 foot ceilings when I listen to our music!

At the very very least, have someone remix what you guys have tracked at home and see if it's good enough that a professional mix will make it commercially viable. As I Lay Dying tracked their last album at home and had Andy Sneap mix it. You could go that route and save money.

[Nightfire]

Dont screw this up by trying to be too stingey and doing it at home...
At the VERY least get your drums done at a "real" studio, even that is pushing it.
Practice hard until your tight and hit the studio.
Just my .02 cents. Good luck, Im a big fan of Third Day.

Mike

[Farview]

Originally Posted by mrhotapples

As I Lay Dying tracked their last album at home and had Andy Sneap mix it. You could go that route and save money.

They had racks full of Neves, a Radar, $20,000 worth of mics, and a professional recording engineer, not a VS 2480.

They turned their house into a profesional studio, there is a big difference between that and what the OP was proposing.

[SouthSIDE Glen]

If, IF, I were forced to choose between tracking at home and mixing professionally, or tracking professionally and mixing at home, I'll take the professional tracking every time.

Quality tracks will almost mix themselves, but comprimised tracking will result in a comprimised mix no matter who does the mixing.

G.

[Mindset]

Being an indie label ourselves.... I suggest you record it professionally & learn later, or your dead in the water, and no body else will give you the time or day. Don't play with product.

[genesisariana]

I really like your songs, and the demo you already have is awesome. But, if the label gave you a budget, just go to a studio and sit back and focus on your performance, let some one else worry about tracking and mixing. It would be a better use of time to really work on your songs from the "producetion" angle before you go in. Be completely happy with how the band sounds and how the songs flow, go in and knock out a really solid performance. Good luck.