Console Recording

[BeniRose]

Hey, this really has nothing to do with anything, but I was wondering if someone could clarify how recording with a console works, both with an analog or digital console. What's the signal path involved? Does audio come back out of the console or just in? I would assume a digital console would work just as a giant interface/control surface, but maybe I'm wrong. For example, a producer I look up to uses a Trident series 90. What would a signal path be like for something like this?

[dementedchord]

the difference is basicly in where the convertors are in the chain... with analog ...like your trident example the outputs are run to convertor inputs and then the convertor outs are hooked to the "tape returns" and it's run essentially as a tape deck... the digital board the convertors are usually the second thing in the board after pre's and then it in most cases acts as a controller as you have gathered...

[BeniRose]

So once I've recorded something using an analog console, do the faders on the console have any effect on the sound during playback?

[dementedchord]

if wired as i've suggested ... yes... you would be doing whats refered to as mixing "out of the box"...

[Adam P]

A true recording console is going to be fairly complex, with many options as far as signal routing and monitoring is concerned. At its most basic, it will allow you to input signals from microphones and instruments, route them to discrete outputs and/or sum them together and output them to a recorder (analog tape, hard disk, computer, etc), monitor the outputs of the recorder in real time through separate channels (either in-line or otherwise), mix these signals from the recorder together and sum them to a stereo pair of channels (the 2-mix or 2-buss) for recording to a mixdown device , monitor playback from the mixdown device, insert effects and dynamics processors into the individual signal paths and busses, and send signals out to effects and to the cue system via auxiliary sends and returns.

For example, I use a 16 channel CAD console with inline channels (in line means that each channel as a mic/line input and a tape input, with two separate signal paths per channel). I mic instruments and connect them to the mic preamp inputs on the CAD. I then send these signals to my Alesis HD24 (hard disk recorder) or Otari MX-5050 (analog tape machine) using the channels' direct outputs and/or by bussing multiple channels together and sending those outputs to the recorder (depending on which one I'm using). The outputs from the recorder connect to the 'tape return' inputs on each channel of the CAD. During tracking, the main channel faders on the mixer control the levels for the direct outs and the signals routed to the buss outs. A separate tape return gain pot is used to set the level for the tape return signal. A button on the console allows me to monitor all of the tape return signals. When its time for mixdown, I turn this switch off, and press a switch on each channel that sends the tape return to the channel fader (instead of the mic input), and I use the faders to mix the recorded tracks.

[BeniRose]

Originally Posted by dementedchord

if wired as i've suggested ... yes... you would be doing whats refered to as mixing "out of the box"...

Would you need separate device to mixdown to if you're mixing out of the box? How would it know if the input the channel is using is the actual input (e.g. mic pre) or the tape return? And then it's not going back out of the board from the tape returns summed to the computer, is it, so you would need a separate mixdown device.

[BeniRose]

Originally Posted by Adam P

For example, I use a 16 channel CAD console with inline channels (in line means that each channel as a mic/line input and a tape input, with two separate signal paths per channel). I mic instruments and connect them to the mic preamp inputs on the CAD. I then send these signals to my Alesis HD24 (hard disk recorder) or Otari MX-5050 (analog tape machine) using the channels' direct outputs and/or by bussing multiple channels together and sending those outputs to the recorder (depending on which one I'm using). The outputs from the recorder connect to the 'tape return' inputs on each channel of the CAD. During tracking, the main channel faders on the mixer control the levels for the direct outs and the signals routed to the buss outs. A separate tape return gain pot is used to set the level for the tape return signal. A button on the console allows me to monitor all of the tape return signals. When its time for mixdown, I turn this switch off, and press a switch on each channel that sends the tape return to the channel fader (instead of the mic input), and I use the faders to mix the recorded tracks.

Ah, gotcha. That makes sense for the most part, but I'm still curious what you send your main L+R out to during mixdown. Do you have 2 open channels on your Alesis that you keep open for mixdown?

[dementedchord]

Originally Posted by BeniRose

Would you need separate device to mixdown to if you're mixing out of the box? How would it know if the input the channel is using is the actual input (e.g. mic pre) or the tape return? And then it's not going back out of the board from the tape returns summed to the computer, is it, so you would need a separate mixdown device.

a separate mix down device is one way to do it... as example alesis used to make a thing called a masterlink that was a stereo hard disk recorder with pre packaged settings for "types" of mixes...

or depending on your set-up you might simply route the outs back to your convertors and do it in the computer...

[Adam P]

Personally I send my main 2-mix output to a pair of inputs on an Echo Layla PCI card recording into Cool Edit.

[Farview]

Originally Posted by BeniRose

Would you need separate device to mixdown to if you're mixing out of the box?

Not if you have available inputs on your interface.

Originally Posted by BeniRose

How would it know if the input the channel is using is the actual input (e.g. mic pre) or the tape return?

It depends on what you plug into it. There is a switch to switch between the two.

If you are asking how you know which one you are listening to, you just have to know how you have the board set.

Originally Posted by BeniRose

And then it's not going back out of the board from the tape returns summed to the computer, is it, so you would need a separate mixdown device.

The tape returns are connected to the output of your recorder, that is how you hear the playback. The tape sends on the mixer are connected to the recorder. The mixer allows you to route any channel to any input on the recorder. As long as you have two available inputs on the recorder, you can use it as your mixdown deck.

[BeniRose]

Cool, I think I get it now. However, if we start adding in features like recall to analog devices, then i'm probably gonna get clueless again, but i'm not too worried about that, considering i don't even know anyone with a console...at least not one I'd be touching anytime soon.

[Ironklad Audio]

the difference is basicly in where the convertors are in the chain... with analog ...like your trident example the outputs are run to convertor inputs and then the convertor outs are hooked to the "tape returns" and it's run essentially as a tape deck... the digital board the convertors are usually the second thing in the board after pre's and then it in most cases acts as a controller as you have gathered...

analog recording requires no "converters" - those are only required for recording to a digital medium

true analog is mic-->preamp(outboard or on console)-->multitrack tape

then it goes multitrack tape-->console-->2-track tape for mixdown

of course the signal path gets more advanced/convoluted as you start routing in outboard effects and sending stuff off to busses

[dementedchord]

let's steer clear of the obvious.... he was asking about the use of a mixer as a frontend as opposed to a digital board...

[BeniRose]

I'm glad you said it so I didn't have to sound like a jerk

But thanks anyways Ironklad!