Mixing frequencys

[suprstar]

Everything I've mixed so far basically sounds like ass.. I've heard something about every instrument 'getting its own space' in the mix, which I think means you want to keep ONE instrument dominating a given frequency range, keeping instruments out of each other's way.

Maybe kick drums dominate 100hz and below, bass guitars dominate 100-1khz, drums 1k-3k, guitars/vocals 3k-7k, cymbals 7k+. Something like that? Am I on the right track? Are my guesses at freq ranges close? Seems vocals and guitars are in similar a similar range, how do you deal with that?

So when tracking, should I attempt to cut freq's in other inst's freq ranges? Or boost the freq's in that particular inst's range? A combination of both? Adjusting the input gain on an eq effectively moves the 0db line up and down so maybe it doesn't matter if you boost the range or cut the out-of-range?

Would you recommend doing this at a tracking level, or wait til mixing, and why?

[jndietz]

Granted I havnen't been recording near as long as some of the seasoned engineers on this board, I think you are on the right track.

Certain instruments dominate certain frequencies. However, each instrument has fundamentals and whatnot. Boosting and cutting EQ, in my opinion, is up to you. Sometimes the best thing to do is cutting, rather than boosting (which is what people automatically want to do).

If you were a seasoned engineer, you could probably EQ at the tracking level. Ex: (audio source) -> (rack EQ) -> (preamp) -> (audio interface). However, even probably the most professional engineers would probably still not do that. In my opinion, its best to apply EQ at the mixing level so that you can allow your instruments and other components of the mix to be adjusted easily.

[Dogbreath]

I'm no pro either but I have figured out that alot of your mixing is done in the tracking stage. By that, I mean to get the sound you want as close as possible while tracking using different mic placement, different mics, different pickup on the guitar etc...instead of a "fix it in the mix" mentality. I've been guilty of that. I don't use EQ when tracking and very little compression.
I also learned that tracking at lower levels has helped clean up the lo-mid mud when mixing. I used to track just below clipping, now my peaks are no higher than -6 to -8.
And when using EQ, I usually cut before I boost. I also tend to keep my cuts and boosts below 6 db. Any more than that and I start to question my tracking of it.
Maybe someone else with more of a clue will chime in.

Peace

[eighteez]

What kind of stuff are you mixing?

If there is a lot of overdriven guitar, back the amount of distortion off a bit. That usually cleans things up some. Without detracting from the overall sound.

Also, take some low end out of the guitar. So the bass comes thru better.

No need to guess on the frequencies, use a spectrum analyzer to see where your tracks are dominant.Dont bump bass guitars up at 200hz just cuz thats what a forum post said. Look at it yourself and see where they are laying in the EQ range.

One thing I do that helps my mixes is to find the dominant freq of the kick drum, +3db to that. -3db to the same freq on the bass guitar. Then find the dominant freq for the bass. +3 to that. -3 to the same freq on the kick.

I also roll off everything below a certain freq for the guitars. What freq depends.... I let the track play and experiment. No need for that low info in there just muddying it all up.......

Panning is very important too. Each thing needs its own space there too.

[Daisy]

Instruments should naturally fall in to a given frequency range.

You can't force a certain sound ... to fall within a range that it doesn't normally fall in to in the natural world. (Unless it's for some sort of nifty effect -- something I'm all for when the occasion calls for it, by the way. )

EQ'ing should be done to accentuate certain elements or to de-emphasize others. It really should be looked at as a means of polishing things up a bit, creatively. If your stuff sounds bad to begin with ... then Eq'ing can actually do as much damage as it does good, and you're probably better off going back to the drawing board and tracking things differently to begin with.

[ripingitar]

definatly back off distortion even if its heavy music you wanna build the sound in layers.
And if you get you bass and guitars frequencys right before you track all the cutting with eq will be minimal or possibly not needed at all . be very aware of the low end coming out of your guitar when tracking, I use alot of low end in my guitar live but cut the lows somewhat when recording.

[eighteez]

I think the distorted guitar thing is a very big tip to figure out.

The sound you seek when playing your guitar without a full band isnt what works right in a full band mix.

[jndietz]

Check out this frequency chart (southside glen made this i believe):

http://www.independentrecording.net/...in_display.htm

[TexRoadkill]

There really aren't any regimented areas that an instrument will take up. They will blend around each other with different frequencies being important for that part.

For instance kick and bass. You generally want the bass to fill in the very bottom (under 100hz) but you also need some mids (around 400-800hz) for impact and some top end (around 2k-3k) for definition.

With kick you want some punch in the 100-400hz range and some top end around 3khz for definition.

Listen to a lot of good mixes and get a feel for what sounds good. It's usually different then what you assume when you start tracking.

[suprstar]

Originally Posted by eighteez

What kind of stuff are you mixing?

No need to guess on the frequencies, use a spectrum analyzer to see where your tracks are dominant.

I'm a metalhead.... In Flames, Lamb of God, Arch Enemy, etc.. Loud obnoxious and aggressive A spectrum analyzer is a great idea, it's so obvious, DUH! Why didnt I think of that!?

Thanks for that chart jndietz, that's EXACTLY what I was looking for!

Off to do more research, thanks everyone,

[COOLCAT]

Originally Posted by suprstar

Everything I've mixed so far basically sounds like ass.. I've heard something about every instrument 'getting its own space' in the mix, which I think means you want to keep ONE instrument dominating a given frequency range, keeping instruments out of each other's way.

I agree with the post "get it in the tracking." This is a first gate to go through. Ass recordings...yes....I'm a pro at making ASS sound recordings...

However, an old pro friend turned me on to "stop" my bad habit of mixing while I recorded. (which not only sounded like ass..but was driving myself nuts and burning out on the tunes as I was mixing too early in the recording...burn out is another thing.).

keep it simple in short. simple by recording in mono-mode (pans all straight up), and leaving the board eq's alone/flat.....capture the performance and make the mics and room and player work to get the best track. tones.

its more challenging and fun too, imo, to force getting better tracking sounds from the instruments and room etc.. (mic placement, tones on the instrument etc..) .

Maybe this will work for you maybe not...? it did for me.


another well known "tip", i think i first stumbled across was reading Geoff Emerick and that is the "MONO-MIX check", where all the pans are straight up. then the eq can shape the recordings to get the best you can get in mono. This seems to work for a basic/gross tweak...imo.

in theory this MONO-MIX forces all the freq's to fight for "their own space" as you called it. Worst case scenario= Mono where all the freq are forced into the same area. Masking is the term I think, ASS, flubby, boomy...in mono its usually magnified to sound even worse.

by setting up an eq in mono, you magnify the freq fighting, and if you can get it to its best there, it usually sounds even better in stereo. then you can work with it making very fine eq tweaks.

this is nothing new, but it was to me and your post sounded familiar..
it was a great help at making my recordings get better.....my brother started it too and the same results...

I'm currently trying to figure out the instrument eq cuts too...but its not so easily done.
My brother just cut on the guitar tracks at the low low end and it ruined the guitar track, yet he's trying to open up room for the bass and kick?

and like a guitar, we're all over the neck from low E's to High E's and therefore we can't just cut-off from 400 down for example...

good post, good question...

[RAMI]

Besides the great advice (most of it, anyway) you're getting here, I'll just add that you should be using your ears, not your eyes.