Saw a crazy shedder last night

[jndietz]

I went to talk to him but he said he doesn't even know the notes on the guitar. It made me sad.

I can't believe it. I've spent so much time learning theory and whatnot but can't play that ridiculously fast. I've always been more of a "create atmosphere" guy more than a "uber shredomatic".

[Jamz0r]

In the long run your material will probably be more interesting to more people than his.

The older I get, the more I appreciate those cool notes a shredder rests on, than the blazing runs they play to get to them.

*edit typo

[rockabilly1955]

I wish I can play that fast. Unfortunately, due to some chronic muscle tension I can't. So my best friend has been learning theory and my notes which has helped my skill very much and somewhat compensates for my lack of super speed.

[WhiteStrat]

What does it say about me if half the time I like to think I can shred (but probably not really...) and most of the time I'm sure I don't the notes well enough...

[Superhuman]

I've been playing for years and I play pretty crazy stuff - still don't know the names of any of the notes on the fretboard and it never held me back . It's all about how you learn, naming notes is just a tool that happens to help a lot of people. My brain's not wired that way, can't get my head around theory but I still play through modes etc by using 'feel'. I know some amazing gutiarists who learnt entirely by ear and feel. I've always preached that ear training and learning the tones of the fretbaord are the best way to learn how to play lead but that doesnt seem to work for everybody. I wouldn't get hung up on it either way - once you can imagine it and play it then you've got shredding sorted, by theory, ear/feel or whatever else works.

[legionserial]

I know the notes on the fretboard but I have to think about it in most cases for a second, which is too slow to be able to play the notes off the bat. If I'm going to improv a lead, I start working out where I am and what I'm going to do a few bars beforehand. That helps me ascertain the scale pattern. I know various scales all over the fretboard, just don't know the notes. I work with intervals and patterns. It's all seem to make more sense that way to me. Especially seeing as I am very rarely tuned to standard E anyway.

[WhiteStrat]

Yeah, from pentatonics to modes of the major scale, I feel pretty fluent in a number of scales and patterns. I have a lot of what I'd call "real world" experience--my ear knows what scale is going to create what sound over a given chord or chord progression. So I'm not complaining...

Besides, it seems to me knowing each note on the neck would likely be beneficial only if one is downright reflexive about chord construction, and I'm not. Again, I've just developed a gut for "this 7th in this key is gonna sound cool and mysterious with this pattern" sorta thing.

[Codmate]

Don't worry - once you hit 30 you're unlikely to care about 'shredding' any more

[Superhuman]

Originally Posted by Codmate

Don't worry - once you hit 30 you're unlikely to care about 'shredding' any more

I'm 33 and I love 'shred' I've been playing on and off since I was 16 and the more I get into playing guitar the more I like the challenging stuff - Jason Becker, Marty Friedman, Vinnie Moore, David Valdes, Michael Romeo etc - players that sound amazing at any speed and mix up the fast stuff with more soulfull passages.

[WhiteStrat]

Originally Posted by Codmate

Don't worry - once you hit 30 you're unlikely to care about 'shredding' any more

I know that's how it's supposed to work, but look at the age in my header--I'm 41.

I think a lot of shredding lacks soul. And I think soul is far more important than speed. If the guitar doesn't sing, it's noise--even if it's fast noise! But I think I do okay in the "make your guitar sing" department. Starting without training, I've been adding lead solos to songs on the radio, records, tapes & then CDs, since I was 12. Along the way I think I've developed a natural instinct for making the guitar sing like another voice in the song.

I didn't hear shred until my 30's. And as long as I have no arthritis, I'll probably keep working on creating what I see as a sweet blend of speed and soul... (Keeps me feeling young too! )

[solo2racr]

I love shredding Especially when I can get both the Visa and the Amex bills though at one time. OOOHHHHHHHH What a feeling

I can't think of anything more interesting than to go watch some douchebag play a million random notes on a guitar at 500 beats per minute.

...and then to watch him try and play something good, and simple, and not know what he's doing...

[cello_pudding]

i know my theory pretty well, being a music major grad...but i still use my ears for creating.

i'll analyze a chord progression and then i can put parts over what i'm playing. and if i'm on guitar and i want to go to play the same thing on piano or accordion, it makes it a lot easier.

it takes a lot of training your ear for making extremely non-diatonic progressions, and to identify what you're doing so you don't do it all the time, it really really really helps to know enough theory to identify where you are in your music and know even more theory to know where you can go with your music.

[antichef]

I'm in the higher age group, too (my info above is off by a factor of 10) -- I was bent on being a shredder in the '80s (still have my RG-550 with the EMGs). I always knew the notes on the fretboard. Definitely not a necessity to get the dexterity to play, but knowing the notes (I think) can help to expand horizons and keep you out of ruts.

I remember back then having a tape with Paul Gilbert playing, and cajoling a girl I knew into listening to it -- she dismissively said something like, 'oh, that just sounds like van halen' - I tried to talk my way out of that for about 6 seconds, and then I realized that, to her, maybe it did. It was then that I realized that shredding was appealing to guitar players (and maybe people who want to be guitar players) and that's about it.

I'm still a guitar player, and I still secretly like shredding, but everyone who surrounds me these days can't stand it. Even my 13 year son, who's playing surprisingly well these days, won't take it seriously (that drives me nuts -- who does he think he is? )

On the other hand, there's always some kid who just picks up the axe and goes (I filmed my 16 month old daughter with my cell phone last night:

http://youtube.titleurl.com/2008/03/...e-plays-guitar

she doesn't know the notes -- getting better at using a pick, though)

[WhiteStrat]

Originally Posted by antichef

I remember back then having a tape with Paul Gilbert playing, and cajoling a girl I knew into listening to it -- she dismissively said something like, 'oh, that just sounds like van halen' - I tried to talk my way out of that for about 6 seconds, and then I realized that, to her, maybe it did. It was then that I realized that shredding was appealing to guitar players (and maybe people who want to be guitar players) and that's about it.

I'm still a guitar player, and I still secretly like shredding, but everyone who surrounds me these days can't stand it. Even my 13 year son, who's playing surprisingly well these days, won't take it seriously (that drives me nuts -- who does he think he is? )

You've nailed it with this one! About 6 or 7 years ago, I recorded a tune with what I was sure was a lame attempt to wail like a shredder. I'm checking out the mix on the living room stereo, and my wife says, "Which one of your "guys" is this?" Meaning is this Vai, Satriani, Johnson, etc.

I should've been flattered, but I was offended! I knew my playing sounded like crap compared to those guys--but (big light bulb moment here!) to my wife, it sounded the same! Arghhh...

I guess it really is for the guitarists! (Forgive my french, but I have a friend who calls it musical masturbation. And it really is referred to as wanking quite a bit...)

[rockabilly1955]

So for all you shredders out there, is there any good lessons on the net that really do help improve speed?

[DrewPeterson7]

Not that I'm a "good shredder" but if you haven't bought "Speed Mechanics for Lead Guitar" by Troy Stetina, do so. There's a reason it's as famous as it is - it's an in-depth look at the physical process of how to play a guitar, wioth the idea of maximizing speed through efficiency of motion. It's a pretty good read. Check out the first few pages on Amazon.com, it'll probably sell you on the book (especially since it's like $15).

Also, just figured I'd toss it out there that it's not either shred or melody, but sometimes it can be both - the best "shred' players, in their finest moments, are often incredibly melodic players. one of the things I've always loved about Satriani is the guy isn't afraid to underplay, sometimes, too. It was his vibrato that really floored me thge first time I saw him play live.

[WhiteStrat]

Originally Posted by DrewPeterson7

Also, just figured I'd toss it out there that it's not either shred or melody, but sometimes it can be both - the best "shred' players, in their finest moments, are often incredibly melodic players. one of the things I've always loved about Satriani is the guy isn't afraid to underplay, sometimes, too. It was his vibrato that really floored me thge first time I saw him play live.

Absolutely. The contrast between the two approaches is what often creates the most drama.

[mikemorgan]

Yes guys, you really have to have something more going for you than fast fingers to impress the girls. I bet Satch doesn't really have a large female fan base, just a lot of dudes who wish they could play like him. I am also saddened by the amount of time people have wasted in their efforts to play like (insert appropriate guitar hero). If you're gigging, you're already where you wanted to be when you picked up the instrument aren't you? "I wish I could play like so and so." Horsehockey!! "I'll bet he wishes he could play this!!!"

[DrewPeterson7]

Originally Posted by mikemorgan

Yes guys, you really have to have something more going for you than fast fingers to impress the girls. I bet Satch doesn't really have a large female fan base, just a lot of dudes who wish they could play like him. I am also saddened by the amount of time people have wasted in their efforts to play like (insert appropriate guitar hero). If you're gigging, you're already where you wanted to be when you picked up the instrument aren't you? "I wish I could play like so and so." Horsehockey!! "I'll bet he wishes he could play this!!!"

Practice is never a waste of effort, so long as it serves something. If it makes you a better player in real world, "yes, but can it cut down trees?" terms, then it's valuable.

Practice for the sake of practice where you never get out of your bedroom and gig because it'd interfere with your practice regimine, on the other hand, IS pretty retarded.

[Superhuman]

I don't see why some people come down on guitarists who can play fast. Yes, a lot of them are boring as fuck and can do nothing beyond fast alternate picking and sweeping arpeggios BUT there are good shredders too that can inject emotion into their playing. Also, playing fast non stop is not my idea of good music - melodic progression, tastful phrasings peppered with lightning fast wizardry is my idea of good shred. Some people think Clapton and BB King are guitar gods, when I hear them I just want to turn them off as quickly as possible. Does that mean I think they are bad players? No, just not my cup o' tea. Check this guy out, this is ne of his slower pieces but there are still some crazy runs in there:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=E4ghUa97sMU
He pretty much nails every technique known to man in an insanely tasteful way... still though there will always be peeps not into this type of things but if you like it you should check out his othere vids too - have 2 of his cd's, this dude is my favorite guitarist of all time - shame he's not better known, he should be on the G3 tour.

[WhiteStrat]

Originally Posted by Superhuman

Check this guy out, this is ne of his slower pieces but there are still some crazy runs in there:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=E4ghUa97sMU
He pretty much nails every technique known to man in an insanely tasteful way... still though there will always be peeps not into this type of things but if you like it you should check out his othere vids too - have 2 of his cd's, this dude is my favorite guitarist of all time - shame he's not better known, he should be on the G3 tour.

He's a great example of what I like as well. It's so fluid and musical--I hesitate to even call it shred. Thanks for the link!

[DrewPeterson7]

Superhuman, Youtube is blocked at the office and I can't follow that link - who is he?

A former instructor of mine raised a really good point re: Joe Satriani and the bluesier/more melodic shred guys. When someone like BB King hits one of "those" notes, yes, it's pretty emotional. I mean, they deserve every acolade heaped upon them. However, if Joe Satriani or George Lynch does the same thing, then there's another level to it - both players are perfectly capable of blazing through 32nd notes like no one's business. If they choose to hold back and make a single note scream, it's a choice in a way that it'll never be for BB King, and in a way it kind of "says" something if not a little more, then at least a little differently.

[jndietz]

I've never been a big fan of shredding personally. I don't think that it really adds a lot to a song. Like some of you, I prefer leads that have more soul and atmosphere than fast picking.

[IronFlippy]

Originally Posted by Superhuman

I don't see why some people come down on guitarists who can play fast. Yes, a lot of them are boring as fuck and can do nothing beyond fast alternate picking and sweeping arpeggios BUT there are good shredders too that can inject emotion into their playing. Also, playing fast non stop is not my idea of good music - melodic progression, tastful phrasings peppered with lightning fast wizardry is my idea of good shred. Some people think Clapton and BB King are guitar gods, when I hear them I just want to turn them off as quickly as possible. Does that mean I think they are bad players? No, just not my cup o' tea. Check this guy out, this is ne of his slower pieces but there are still some crazy runs in there:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=E4ghUa97sMU
He pretty much nails every technique known to man in an insanely tasteful way... still though there will always be peeps not into this type of things but if you like it you should check out his othere vids too - have 2 of his cd's, this dude is my favorite guitarist of all time - shame he's not better known, he should be on the G3 tour.

He has some really good, creative licks and riffs in there. It's the lack of contrast that made me lose interest. I find it really hard to listen to stuff that doesn't go anywhere. But that's just taste. The guy is a great guitar player and I wish I had chops like that.