Royer Live series with "significantly thicker ribbons"

[kojdogg]

Royer is releasing versions of their R-121, R-122, and SF-24 ribbons with "significantly thicker ribbons" (quote from Recording magazine not Royer's site) ostensibly for live use. Royer claims that gain, transient response and other sonic qualities are minimally effected by this change.

My understanding (granted-- garnered pretty much from what I've read here and elsewhere on the internet) thick ribbons are bad-- that mics like the Nady RSM-4/5 were slagged in stock form because their ribbons were too thick (roughly 6 microns?). I imagine Royer probably found a happy medium for these new mics and tune them carefully, etc., but I'm curious about what some of the mic gurus around here might think.

[Ironklad Audio]

thick ribbons sound bad in theory since their increased mass results in decreased sensitivity

but if i remember correctly, all of the vintage ribbons such as RCA's and the like had ribbons that were a lot thicker than 2 microns, and people still crap themselves over those mics and those which try to emulate them

[dgatwood]

Originally Posted by kojdogg

Royer is releasing versions of their R-121, R-122, and SF-24 ribbons with "significantly thicker ribbons" (quote from Recording magazine not Royer's site) ostensibly for live use. Royer claims that gain, transient response and other sonic qualities are minimally effected by this change.

A quick Google search suggests that the new ones are 2.5 microns. I can't imagine how that could be significantly thicker than what they used before, though....

[Zetajazz44]

This may be common knowledge, but I didn't know this right off the top of my head and thought I'd post it here:



1 Microns = 0.0000393 Inches
Average Human Hair - 0.004 Inches

According to these numbers, if you split a human hair, along its length, into 102 equal pieces, one of these pieces
would be equal to 1 Micron.

So in what Royer is doing in increasing the thickness of their ribbons, they are essentially going from a ribbon that was the thickness of 2 of these 102 pieces of a human hair split along its length and increasing it to 2 1/2 of these...

Just found this interesting...


Randy
Zetajazz44
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[kojdogg]

Originally Posted by dgatwood

A quick Google search suggests that the new ones are 2.5 microns. I can't imagine how that could be significantly thicker than what they used before, though....

Thanks-- I didn't find that in my qucik Google search. I wonder how much more rugged that increase makes the mics...

[dgatwood]

Originally Posted by kojdogg

Thanks-- I didn't find that in my qucik Google search. I wonder how much more rugged that increase makes the mics...

From... I think 2 to 2.5? About .5.

Seriously, though, I'd guess not much. Trivial changes to the thickness and openness of the grille, etc. would probably make a much bigger difference than a mere 25% increase in the ribbon thickness. Just my gut feeling. Unless they used to be thinner than 2 micron, in which case... well, still probably not that much, I wouldn't think.

[soundchaser59]

I don't suppose Royer is making these new ribbons significantly less expensive?

[kojdogg]

Originally Posted by dgatwood

From... I think 2 to 2.5? About .5.

Seriously, though, I'd guess not much. Trivial changes to the thickness and openness of the grille, etc. would probably make a much bigger difference than a mere 25% increase in the ribbon thickness. Just my gut feeling. Unless they used to be thinner than 2 micron, in which case... well, still probably not that much, I wouldn't think.

I got that, I was less asking the question than questioning their copy. Could you post the link to where you found the 2.5 micron thickness listed? I didn't see it on Royer's site.

[dgatwood]

Originally Posted by kojdogg

I got that, I was less asking the question than questioning their copy. Could you post the link to where you found the 2.5 micron thickness listed? I didn't see it on Royer's site.

It was a discussion on some discussion board. I Google searched for Royer, the first of those model numbers, and the word micron.

[kojdogg]

Originally Posted by dgatwood

It was a discussion on some discussion board. I Google searched for Royer, the first of those model numbers, and the word micron.

Doh-- that makes sense

Anyway... according to this link:

http://news.harmony-central.com/Newp...abs-SF-24.html
"For Royer's new SF-24 Live Phantom Powered Stereo Ribbon Microphone, the thickness of the two ribbons has been increased from 1.8 microns to 2.5 microns. With the R-121 Live and R-122 Live models, ribbon thickness has been increased from 2.5 microns to 4 microns. Live Series microphones are identified with an "L" on the top of the mic, and are priced the same as the studio versions."

So yeah, I guess that for the SF-24 it is 2.5 microns, but for the 121 and 122 Live models it's 4 microns, which is significantly thicker (though still fragile I suppose). Just find it interesting-- especially since 4 micron thick aluminum leaf seems to be much cheaper and easier to find than 1.8 micron thick aluminum leaf.

[robin watson]

Originally Posted by Ironklad Audio

thick ribbons sound bad in theory since their increased mass results in decreased sensitivity

but if i remember correctly, all of the vintage ribbons such as RCA's and the like had ribbons that were a lot thicker than 2 microns, and people still crap themselves over those mics and those which try to emulate them

You'd better get on to our David asap, before he inadvertently releases a line of crap microphones with overly thick ribbons.