Difference between line mixers

[evm1024]

I('m thinking that I need a line mixer. Something like the Tascam M1B or the Teac M1. Both are currently on eBay.

Any thoughts on the differences between them, realistic prices, Docs, alternatives?

Thanks in advance.

--Ethan

[ethyrvalve]

Hi, I have the tascam M1b. I use it along with my m512 to create cue mixes. I'm happy with it. It's a pretty utilitarian device. I like that it has 2 headphone out jacks (I don't have to bother setting up a headphone distribution amp a lot of the time because of that). The fact it uses rca connectors could be a pain for some people i suppose.
I could send you a pdf copy of the manual if you'd like (it's not terribly informative i'm afraid).

[Richard King]

I don't know the electronic differences between the two models, but the 1B has colored knobs while the 1 had charcoal colored knobs. Functionally I THINK they were the same.

Here's a theater system that I designed MANY years ago using Model 1B's as matrix mixers to the theater speakers.

[ofajen]

I have a pair of Roland SMX-880s that I bought back in the 80s. They work pretty well. Some of the pots get a little scratchy if I don't use them for a while.

They have eight 1/4" unbalanced inputs, each with a +4/-20 dBu sensitivity setting in back and pan and volume controls up front. Also, a pair of extra inputs without level controls that go to left/right bus for ganging the main unbalanced outputs of a second unit for 16 channel operation.

There are 1/4" unbalanced outputs in back, again with +4/-20 dBu level setting and XLR balanced outputs in front that are +4 only. Master L/R volume controls on the front affect both of those outputs. Then there is a single 1/4" stereo headphone output, with its own level control. The phones output is not affected by the master output controls.

Should sell for about the same as the Tascam units, but they are probably much less common.

Cheers,

Otto

[Beck]

Ethan,

The M-1B is very nice… I have two of them. One I use to expand the stereo effects return capacity on my main mixer. The other covers various needs and is moved around a lot. I used the TEAC Model 1 many years ago.

In use they are similar, but the Tascam M-1B is noticeably quieter with all channels at moderate levels. The M-1B is basically an improved M1. If I were to use the older TEAC unit I would probably pull the op-amps and replace with NE5532’s or 4580’s. The M1 comes stock with 4558’s. The M-1B has a slightly better JRC 2041, but they could both benefit from newer op-amps. IMO, most products can though.

I like the layout of the M-1B a bit better. The gain pots are on top with the pan pots below them. It’s the other way ‘round on the TEAC… not a big deal I guess. Both are rack mountable, if you can find an M1 that the owner hasn’t lost the rack ears. Speaking of that, I do like the wood panels on the M1. I’m sure you could easily make some for the M-1B if you’re not planning to rack it.

Other line mixers I’ve owned or used:

Fostex 2050 – a bit hissier than the M-1B, but ok. 8 channels, Single rack space with stacked gain/pan knobs.

Furman 8-channel… can’t remember the model. Also single rack space… knobs a bit too close together, but sounded fine.

A couple years ago I looked at the Behringer 1602 at a local store. It sounded good… very quiet, but I think this was the worst of all as far as cramming too many small knobs in too little space. After looking at a few other stores I ended up buying a second M-1B on eBay.

The M-1B might appear to some to be wasting space for only two knobs on each channel and double rack high. However, this is another thing I like about it… Lots of space and little chance of bumping the wrong knob. Same goes for the M1. They also both have plenty of room on the inside for moding. Plus being over twenty years old (30 for the M1) they have DIP ICs and standard axial resistors, so no surface mount nightmares waiting inside if you’re into moding.

I don’t have the specs for the TEAC M1, but the Tascam M-1B is as follows:

Freq response: 20 - 30Khz +/- 1dB
S/N ratio: 82 dB ("A" WTD)
THD: 0.03% @1khz
Crosstalk: 65 dB

IMO, $50.00 - $75.00 is reasonable for the M-1B depending on condition.

~Tim

[evm1024]

Thanks to all, I'll think that I'll hold out till a M-1B comes around at a reasonable price. I'm planning on using it to bring in the odds and ends (synth, 3.75 ips deck and whatnot) to my 312B

Putting in a few opamps would be OK too.

As for the manual PDF, Thanks! I'll PM my email address.

Regards, Ethan

[ethyrvalve]

i just realized what i have is actually the service manual not the instructions for the M1b. If anyone else needs a copy, just send me a PM.

[RRuskin]

Originally Posted by Richard King

I don't know the electronic differences between the two models, but the 1B has colored knobs while the 1 had charcoal colored knobs. Functionally I THINK they were the same.

The knob color is the only difference.

[Richard King]

Originally Posted by RRuskin

The knob color is the only difference.

Thanks, Rick. That's what I thought, but, it's been a while since I have seen either one of these.... by the way, you've got a CD order waiting.

[RRuskin]

Originally Posted by Richard King

.... by the way, you've got a CD order waiting.

Bless you. It goes out on Monday.

[pmayor]

I also have an M1-B and I want to rack mount it. Anyone know if it came with rackmount handles? (Is that the name for them?) I'm the original owner but if it came with handles (brackets) I can't find them. Anyone know where I can get them?

[laxfm]

I just read your post and was looking for the M-1 mixer manual .
can you help?
here's the email in case you want to send the file!

theskybrokers@gmail.com

Thanks so much in advance.

[Beck]

Originally Posted by Richard King

I don't know the electronic differences between the two models, but the 1B has colored knobs while the 1 had charcoal colored knobs. Functionally I THINK they were the same.

There are actually three versions:

1) The original TEAC M1 with black knobs
2) The TEAC M1 with color knobs
3) The Tascam M-1B with color knobs

The only difference between the two TEAC units is the colored knobs. However, the Tascam, M-1B has several differences inside and out – some differences in layout, two headphone jacks on front instead of one, and some differences in circuitry. The Tascam M-1B also has signal overload LEDs for the L/R channels of the master gain, which the TEAC Model 1 doesn't.

The Tascam unit has slightly better specs, but the TEAC version isn’t too bad… a bit hissier. When this thread first started I didn’t have the specs for the TEAC unit handy, but I knew it was subjectively noisier from using it in the past. Since then I ran across the specs, so they can be compared to the Tascam M-1B.

TEAC M1 (1976 - 1981 at least)
Frequency response: 30 Hz – 20 kHz +/- 1dB
S/N ratio: >76 dB ("A" WTD)
THD: 0.1% @1khz
Crosstalk: 50 dB


Tascam M-1B ( 80-something - early 90's)
Frequency response: 20 Hz – 30 kHz +/- 1dB
S/N ratio: 82 dB ("A" WTD)
THD: 0.03% @1khz
Crosstalk: 65 dB

If I were to use a TEAC Model 1 these days I would probably swap out the 4558 op-amps for 4580’s and replace resistors in the signal path with metal film type. The Tascam M-1B has slightly better JRC 2041 op-amps, but it would be worth putting some IC sockets in the thing and experimenting with other op-amps.

On the other hand, for someone who wants a front end for a DAW you might just want to leave it alone...