Noise Reduction Units

[insanescott]

I have been looking at several units such as the DBX 150 and the Owl Multifilter. I am trying to convert old cassette tapes with tons of hiss to a pc.

My cassette deck already has dolby b and c noise reduction, and while it reduces the noise, it kills my high end. Would these standalone units be an upgrade for me and would it reduce noise while not making my highs disappear? Any other units you can recommend? Thanks.

Scott

[7x7]

The problem is that if a recording isn't made with Dolby type noise reduction you can't play it back with noise reduction, not without making the sound more dull.

I'm no expert at all, but since you are digitizing the tapes, I think you'd be best of using software to reduce the noise. Something like a graphic EQ, or perhaps some audio software like Audicity that has some noise reduction filters. I bet there most be lots of other programs or plug-ins that can help reduce noise.
Best thing to do is to select a part that has the noise but no (or no important) music, clean the noise by altering frequencies and then see how your settings work on parts with music. Don't overdo it, cause any EQ or noise reduction setting will obviously alter all the sound, so I reckon it's a matter of trial and error before you get to the desired results...

[insanescott]

Thanks for the response. Unfortunately, all of the noise reduction plug-ins I have used in Wavelab have not only killed my high end but have given my highs a really weird sound. (Think of cymbals on a low quality mp3.) I have gotten nice results with a multiband compressor but not enough to be content.

Because of these issues I am considering a standalone noise reduction unit. I'm sure that none of my cassettes were originally recorded with the Dolby noise reduction mode, so I understand that applying a Dolby noise reduction after the fact will not sound very good. I am leaning towards purchasing the OWL Multifilter because I know they aren't using Dolby noise reduction in their system. Does dba equipment use Dolby noise reduction? Thanks.

[7x7]

Originally Posted by insanescott

Thanks for the response. Unfortunately, all of the noise reduction plug-ins I have used in Wavelab have not only killed my high end but have given my highs a really weird sound. (Think of cymbals on a low quality mp3.) I have gotten nice results with a multiband compressor but not enough to be content.

The only way to really get rid of all noise, is to rerecord the music. You're remastering a mastered source, so you are limited and bound to encounter side effects, no matter what device you use. Noise can be reduced by a few dB with some careful multiband settings, but I think you can't expect miracles from any software plug-in or hardware device.
Probably somebody else can shine a light on this. As said, I'm no expert, I take all my noise for granted

[insanescott]

I don't believe I will be remastering a master. All of these cassettes are recorded by amateurs in the 70's and 80's. Also I plan to run things like this:

cassette deck>noise reduction stand alone unit> computer

I will be reducing the noise before the recording is converted to digital. Thanks again for the input.

[Herm]

That wont work so dont waist your money. Eq or software is the only thing you can do at this point.

[insanescott]

Can you offer any more information on why a standalone noise reduction unit wont be effective before converting to digital?

[Tim Gillett]

IMO you have to be realistic as to what any single ended noise reduction software or hardware can do. Unfortunately TV programs like CSI have created unrealistic expectations in the public's mind (that's a polite way of putting it).

First, and most critical steps are in the analog domain. Use a good quality cassette deck, in top condition, especially the play head. Learn about azimuth.


If these are paying clients be wary of raising their hopes with unrealistic expectations.


Cheers Tim

[insanescott]

I am definitely not expecting miracles with noise reduction. Based on my experience with computer based noise reduction I have grown to hate noise reduction. But, I have been hearing good things about the dbx snr-1 and others. Again, I am not expecting miracles. Just enough noise reduction to apply a decent eq to help balance these recordings.

[Richard King]

Originally Posted by insanescott

Can you offer any more information on why a standalone noise reduction unit wont be effective before converting to digital?

DBX is an encode/decode process. If the tapes were not produced using DBX originally they will sound worse trying to decode a non-encoded product. Don't even try it, you won't like it. There were some stand alone noise reduction units (mainly variable filters) produced in the '70's and '80's that helped somewhat, notable among them is the Burwin 1201A. HOWEVER, if you have a decent ear you could always hear them working. Rather than waste your money on something like the DBX unit that WON'T work, you should try to find a Burwin 1201A which will at least improve your product.

Here ya go, but HURRY!!!! http://cgi.ebay.com/KLH-Dynamic-Nois...QQcmdZViewItem
You can steal this one, maybe.

[Richard King]

Here's an SNR-1. It appears to be similar to the Berwin unit in function, but I have never used it and so can't say how well it would work. The price is right, I guess, for a gamble.
http://cgi.ebay.com/dbx-SNR-1-SINGLE...QQcmdZViewItem

[Beck]

Like others have pointed out, if your tapes weren’t originally recorded with companding type noise reduction like Dolby A, B, C, etc, or dbx Type I or II, you can’t use any of these on playback.

The best stand-alone single-ended noise reduction unit I’ve ever used (and still have) is the early Berhinger SNR-202 2-channel Denoiser (Made in Germany before the days of outsourcing). The single-ended dbx and Hush units work on the same principle, but the Behringer actually works well with tape, and in a word is outstanding. I can’t say the same for the newer Chinese made Behinger denoisers… they aren’t the same.

Make sure it’s the SNR-202 or even the earlier “Studio Denoiser MKIII.” The SNR-202 is silver and black… looks a bit like the modern Behinger stuff. The older MKIII is black with red trim. They are the same units on the inside.

I don’t know of a plug-in that works as well... or really works at all without altering the sound to a noticeable degree.

[Torin Krell]

Waves and Sony puts out some noise reduction plugins that work well and received good reviews in a SOS magazine review about a half a year ago. For reasonably priced hardware I would recommend the vintage Phase Linear 1000 Series Two. It has settings you can adjust by ear and even an expander which if used conservatively can put some punch back into your cassettes. The Phase Linear 1000 Series Two will reduce your noise about 5 - 10 decibles without really killing your highs and it is also a beautiful piece of gear.

I'm not in a hurry to sell mine but if you live close to NYC let me know perhaps we can work something out.

Best of luck!

[Torin Krell]

Two professional high end companies that make hardware noise reduction units include the vintage Packburn units (better for crackle and impulse noise) and several versions of the CEDAR noise reduction units. The newer CEDAR rack units are amazingly effective and could be rentable in big cities such as NYC.

[TinNedd]

Originally Posted by insanescott

I am trying to convert old cassette tapes with tons of hiss to a pc.
Scott

Depends on what noise reduction your old cassettes were recoded whith? Most noise reduction systems work by recording through NR and playing back through the same type NR.

A computer program like Cool Edit is probably the best way, unless you have encoded the tapes whith DBX.