What weirdo trickery is this??!!

[Jouni]

Hi...

I'm puzzled!!.. And angry... cannot understand.


We just made an EP, everyone says it sounds fine.

Now, this "manager" of us, that has arrenged a couple of gigs for us, says he wants us to a "promo-collection-album" with some other bands, with some big names. But says the EP doesn't sound good enough.

He wants us to go to a "studio" nearby run by a friend of his, 10bucks per hour, for two days, to record a song.
AND THE TRACK WOULD BE RECORDED WITH PROGRAMMED DRUMS!!!!!!

Our drummer isn't that bad, and the "manager" says it's common policy!!!!???.......

Is it????... Is he yanking our chain??.. what could he gain from it?....

..I take that as an insult to our drummer, and said to the singer/songwriter that they can synthesize the bass too if that's the route he chooses..

[steve.h]

Post the tracks, we'll be the judge!

Yeah let us hear the drums. If they really aren't up-to-par, and you're trying to get somewhere, then just do it. $10/hr at a professional studio? Programmed drums (when done right) can sound great, usually much better than most musicians can do on their budget. But maybe a lot of drummers would disagree.

[Jouni]

Well, here goes..

The starting track of the EP:


http://serif.pp.fi/ep/Death%20Only.mp3


warningeath-metal.

[Harvey Gerst]

Well, I'll start: I think you guys did a great job. Other than wanting to hear a little more definition on the kick drum, it's pretty damn good. The guitars sound great.

I know this style won't get you too much love around here (and so far, your only comments have been from a 71 year old fart), but I think you should be very proud of your work.

You just need to get a little more click in the kick.

[steve.h]

It's mixed more like black metal than death metal, not bad for a (hopefully?) inexpensive demo. Everything sounds WAY far back though: metal should be "in your face"!

I think your "manager" has good intentions, but isn't sure what to fix, and most likely heard about how "programmed drums" make mixes sound a ton better. In reality, you'd be better off recording with someone with more experience recording death/black metal and using your current drummer (who sounds perfectly capable to me). As opposed to programmed drums, it'd be a better plan to have the engineer sound-replace them (or at the very least "enhance" them), as 90% of the recordings you hear these days are sound-replaced anyway.

[Jouni]

Thanks for the replies!!!

Yeah, we have tons of black-metal influences.. that comes through I guess.

Total amount spent; 660 euros.
That got us 300 audio-cd:s with 2-color printing and 4-color printed single-case.
...I'm thinking of starting to produce other bands demos too.

I don't know what the hell is he expecting from a "home-made" promo-EP...

..but I gathered from your replies that it isn't plain bad.

[mikeh]

It is not uncommon for bands to be marketed on compilation CDs - so the idea being suggested by your manager could be valid. Should the material be re-recorded? It depends on many things. If the promo CD is to shop around to venues to book gigs (or even to to shop you to labels)- then I think what you have should be fine.

However, it also depends on what the other recordings will sound like. Perhaps your manager should allow you to hear some of the other recordings to allow you to judge the recording quality (comapred to your CD). You should also ask to hear some of the material recorded at the $10 per hour studio (in a genre that is close to what your band does).

$10 per hour is not bad if the final product is better than what you have. If it's not better, then it may not be worth it. By the way, if your "manager" beleives in your band and if he insists that you re-record, perhaps he should pay for part (or all) of the costs.

[eeb]

what the hell kinda hack studio would charge 10$ an hour.. I can pretty much go to burger king and get a similar wage.. red flags are going up about this place already.. if this is a real studio and he actually is good then what the hell is he doing charging soo little...

anyone else with me on this one? I'm no where near a pro studio but I would never work for under 15-20$ an hour.. If you want a great recording make sure you listen to what this guy has done and shop around to other studios.. a little more money in a better studio is definately a good investment

[steve.h]

Originally Posted by eeb

what the hell kinda hack studio would charge 10$ an hour.. I can pretty much go to burger king and get a similar wage.. red flags are going up about this place already.. if this is a real studio and he actually is good then what the hell is he doing charging soo little...

anyone else with me on this one? I'm no where near a pro studio but I would never work for under 15-20$ an hour.. If you want a great recording make sure you listen to what this guy has done and shop around to other studios.. a little more money in a better studio is definately a good investment

Everyone's gotta start somewhere man: being the cheapest guy is always gonna get you SOME business. Charging $10/hr at least guarantees the band won't take advantage of you time-wise, vs. a per-song rate. For instance, for my first hourly project, I charged $10/hr. I ended up spending around 140 hours on the project over three months, so I'm pretty glad I didn't charge something stupid per-song!

My rates have since increased (to $15/hr or so) and will continue to do so when the quality of my work increases, but at least in my state, $10/hr is a decent starting amount.

[mikeh]

$10 per hour does sound low - but there are waaaay too many variables to determine if that rate means anything. It could indeed mean the studio is simply trying to draw in business. It could mean that the going rate in that particular city dictates the hourly price. It could also mean the "manager" has negotiated a lower rate (maybe he sends a lot of bands to that studio).

It would seem logical to ask to hear not only the quality of work from that $10 studio - but also on the other songs that will be part of the compilation (which then brings up the question - were any of the other songs on the compilation recorded at that $10 studio?)

[TerraMortim]

no listen for me. repost? I love death metal.

[TerraMortim]

ack... it posted twice.

[TerraMortim]

Originally Posted by steve.h

Everything sounds WAY far back though: metal should be "in your face"!

unless your xasther

[jndietz]

If people buy it and like listening to it, then you've done your job and accomplished the goal. Now you just gotta push it.

If it ain't broke don't fix it.

[rayc]

Compromise - take one of your EP tracks for an experimental remix by A "professional" who has a clue about your genre (without the drum programming - I'd be offended for the drummer too - in fact I quit a good band because they derided & sacked the drummer claiming he was the problem with the band because of his BEARD) & compare/contrast the two. Based on the generally positive responses you may just need a remix.

[roflcopter]

dude, it seems like EVERY metal recording these days uses programmed drums.

seriously, you listen to these recordings and the drumming sounds so mechanical...give all shall perish's drum tracks one critical listen and you'll find that playing that fast, that flawlessly and consistently isn't possible. it has no dynamics whatsoever...same with through the eyes of the dead...job for a cowboy does it (and their drummer SUCKS live)...

but it definitely gives you that squeaky-clean, rock-solid sounding drumming so while it may not be your real drummer on your CD, it's still him playing it live and that's what matters. i've even seen bands not even have a drummer...they'll set up a fucking laptop on stage and roll a WAV file that they made in fruity loops, hahahahahahaha

don't be offended by your manager's suggestion...i would say it's very commonplace in this genre.