1/4" ATR MasterTape is here

[N7SC]

Not that I'm gonna be buying any at $55 per reel. US Recording Media has it. In stock, so says the website.

I could swear that the price I saw on the USR website earlier today was even higher, like over $60, and they had the usual USR blather about "Standard price," "Special USR price," (in red) etc. But not now.

Well, now there are two manufacturers of 1/4" tape, one has some shed problems and ain't exactly cheap, the other costs a whole arm and a leg too. Just frickin nifty.

[jjones1700]

i think shed is going to be around until the Japanese get back in the game, if ever. That is the unfortunate part. Then again, I haven't had any problems with my LPR35 or SM911, so I'll keep on with the RMG. I'm not going to try to recalibrate my deck for +10.5db (or even +9db for that matter) so I can use ATR.

[cjacek]

Originally Posted by jjones1700

I'm not going to try to recalibrate my deck for +10.5db (or even +9db for that matter) so I can use ATR.

Well, you don't really have to. You can use any level you want. The ATR tape, however, requires more bias but I suspect it will be good to use 'as is' and biasing our decks to it [to get more accurate performance] should prove not a problem. As an example, lets take Quantegy 456 / RMGI SM911 / RMGI SM468:

456
Coercivity 320 Oe
Retentivity 1500 Gauss

SM911
Coercivity 320 Oe
Retentivity 1450 Gauss

SM468

Coercivity 380 Oe
Retentivity 1400 Gauss

Now, lets take the ATR tape:

ATR
Coercivity 365 Oe
Retentivity 1590 gauss

As you can see, bias (as per the coercivity) requirements, for the ATR tape, fall somewhere between the 'standard' (456 / SM911) and SM468, which requires most bias.

The only thing which may be problematic is that the ATR tape is a bit more thick (2.28mil ATR vs 1.97mil SM911 vs 1.89mil SM468). Obviously the extra ATR operating level (which we'll never use, at least on this board) is responsible, at least in part, for the greater thickness of the ATR tape, which possibly makes it more stiff and thus may not be good for the tape transport and heads, even if it can bias up to it. The mechanical specs of this tape may be too much, at least in the long haul, for a 'semi-pro' recorder to handle. I mean, the ATR tape may even be spec'd higher than the GP9, which one should never use on this type of gear, not that it's a bad tape, but that the tape is just too hard on the tape transport, which includes the motors, tape path and heads, not to mention being worried about possible incomplete erasure and less than ideal head-wrap for best freq response (on these 'home studio' decks).

I, however, am still wondering if the extra .31mils would be problematic, at least transport stress wise.

As far as price, the ATR tape so far has had great reviews, being the highest spec'd tape so far and the heavy duty precision reels, which undoubtedly increase the price, are well worth it. I think that if one has a machine capable of easily handling this tape, than it's the best tape so far, at least from the specs and reviews so far.

That's my thought as far as the tape is involved but I'd get the empty 6 screw precision reels, in a heart beat. If they're anything like the heavy duty Ampex precision reels then I'm sold.

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[N7SC]

Originally Posted by cjacek

As far as price, the ATR tape so far has had great reviews, being the highest spec'd tape so far and the heavy duty precision reels, which undoubtedly increase the price, are well worth it. I think that if one has a machine capable of easily handling this tape, than it's the best tape so far, at least from the specs and reviews so far.

That's my thought as far as the tape is involved but I'd get the empty 6 screw precision reels, in a heart beat. If they're anything like the heavy duty Ampex precision reels then I'm sold.

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The photo on the USR web site shows the 1/4" ATR tape on a normal, 3-screw, reel. Further investigation on the ATR website reveals that the wording is very careful to exclude mention of 1/4" tape on the precision reels.

I find this disappointing. I was hoping for a replacement for my beloved 3M 996, precision reels and all. Now the only choice is the potentially sticky/shedding RMGI SM900 or the insanely overpriced ATR, which may be too much for the transport on my Revox A77. And neither are on precision reels. Bloody Bugger!

Well, there is still the option of taking my chances on NOS 996 when it does show up somewhere. But that is usually pancakes, and can be risky due to lubricant squeeze-out in some batches. And still, the really nice ("reely nice", if you want the pun) 3M precision reels with the rubber hub liner (makes threading and starting a reel sooooo easy) are hard to find and sellers are charging a fortune for them. Damn, I had really been looking forward to the ATR tape on precision reels, and for a price somewhat less than $55 per reel.

[jjones1700]

I think the only thing I would have to worry about on my RT-909 would be the capstan motor being under more stress from the ATR tape. The reel motors themselves pull like mules, so those are up to the task. As far as the head contact, I'm not sure what to expect if I were to use that tape. I'm sure ATR tape on an RS-1500 or higher series would be a beautiful thing. Too bad I don't own one.

[Beck]

My biggest hope for ATR is that people that are using ATR100s and such will buy it and leave the RMGI for the rest of us.

As for Japanese tape like Maxell, unfortunately we can’t save the whales and have that formulation at the same time.

BASF/EMTEC SM911 and SM468 never had shedding problems, so I’m hopeful RMGI will or already has sorted that problem out. Now if they could only offer the tape at a reasonable price.

[jjones1700]

Originally Posted by Beck

My biggest hope for ATR is that people that are using ATR100s and such will buy it and leave the RMGI for the rest of us.

As for Japanese tape like Maxell, unfortunately we can’t save the whales and have that formulation at the same time.

BASF/EMTEC SM911 and SM468 never had shedding problems, so I’m hopeful RMGI will or already has sorted that problem out. Now if they could only offer the tape at a reasonable price.

The price sticker on my UD35-180 says "$23.99". My how things have changed.

[cjacek]

ATR 1/4" not on precision reels? That's too bad.

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[jpmorris]

Originally Posted by N7SC

Well, now there are two manufacturers of 1/4" tape,one has some shed problems and ain't exactly cheap, the other costs a whole arm and a leg too. Just frickin nifty.

Three. The third one isn't selling to the US at present.

I'm glad this stuff is out, though - so far each of my albums has been mixed to a different brand of tape, and I should still be able to carry on with that plan if I can source some of this stuff

A Day at the People Factory - Quantegy 456
Songs for the Wild-At-Heart - BASF 911
The Mythical Creatures Exhibition - Zonal 700
Pancake Ferret - RMGI SM911(*)

*So sue me. Anyway, it's a different colour to the BASF...

[cjacek]

If we want the prices down, Quantegy needs to get back into the game to give RMGI the competition. I'd betcha RMGI would then cut prices pronto.

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[Splicit]

I don't know if any of you have heard and...you won't like hearing it either but.....there is about to be a big auction type sale in Opelika, Al. at the old Quantegy plant. All of the production equipment is being sold off. I had heard a rumor earlier this month to the effect that Quantegy was going to try to re-make a small selection of tape again. That does not look good now. Creditors have been after them for some time and I suppose the inevitable has finally happened. They need to sell equipment to pay off debts. Sorry to be the bearer of lousy news.

Roger
Splicit Reel Audio

[cjacek]

Roger, is the actual Quantegy up for sale (the company) or are they just selling off the tape equipment to pay off debts?

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[Splicit]

I dont believe the actual company is for sale...just equipment. That's all I know at this point. If I hear anymore I'll let you know.

Roger

[Splicit]

Just got this from a friend "in the know".
http://www.hilcoind.com/sales/sale.a...L&F_PAST_SALE=
This is the online site for the auction.

Roger

[Beck]

Actually that’s potentially good news. The current owners need to cook or get out of the kitchen… this is at least a start. When EMTEC broke up, their equipment was sold to different buyers, with RMGI getting the reel-to-reel tape manufacturing stuff.

As I’ve said before I can’t imagine all the Quantegy formulations, which include Ampex and 3M, just disappearing for good. There were other interested parties when Discount Tape won the bid for Quantegy in ’05. Someone else could make a go of it by focusing on the most popular analog formulas, like GP9, 456, 457, etc.

The fat lady hasn’t sung yet.

[cjacek]

Yeah, I agree about the potential good news of it. This indeed looks exactly like the EMTEC RMGI situation and one can only hope that someone with a better business sense (than Q) can take over the equipment and production of Quantegy tape again, although it wouldn't be called Quantegy anymore, I don't think. I mean, there must be a way to make smaller quantities of tape without massive overhead, like reducing hired help, the actual space etc... I wonder if the assets for sale also include the tape formulation recipes.

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[jpmorris]

Most of the stuff in the brochure is a fantastic collection of video and multitrack recorders (and associated spare parts), which they presumably use(d) for testing purposes. I don't see any mention of the actual core production equipment.

To quote:

[hr]
Featured Assets Include:
* Panasonic Models D5, D3, AJ - 350 Digital Video Cassette Recorders
* Sony Models DVR - 10P, 18, & 2100 Digital Video Cassette Recorders

Multi Station Test Stands, Computer Equipment, Control Cabinets, Instrumentation, Oscilloscopes, Amp Meters, Volt Meters, Digital Tape Reels, Portable Video Cassette Recorders, Optical Testers, Noise Meters, Signal Generators, Oscillators, Video Monitors, Sonic Testers, Switch Control Units, Spectro Analyzers, Multichannel Tape Recorders, Audio Recording Equipment, 4, 8, & 24 Channel Audio Recorders,Degausser, Analyzers, Spectrophotometers, Tape Instrumentation & Test Equipment,
Calibration Equipment, Very Large Quantity Electronics Replacement & Repair Parts, Catalogs, Etc.

[Beck]

Yeah, this bunch doesn’t include the tape manufacturing facilities, or mixing, spreading and slitting assemblies, but I doubt those would be sold in this sort of format. I’m sure people have already expressed interest in the manufacturing equipment and tape patents. We’ll probably find out about that after the fact.

The good sign is that they are starting to unload equipment, so that gives me hope that the current boobs aren’t going to try to resurrect the tape division themselves. The reason for the sale according to the auction is, “Due to complete plant closure.” I hope that means no Quantegy at all… no hard drives.

Quantegy throwing in the towel is the first step to getting the tape formulations into competent hands. Of course a total management change starting at the top would work (would have worked) too. Either way.

[ofajen]

Originally Posted by Beck

As I’ve said before I can’t imagine all the Quantegy formulations, which include Ampex and 3M, just disappearing for good.

Did Quantegy actually buy out the 3M tape formulations and equipment? I never heard of it. I don't recall Quantegy ever making any 3M formulations.

Cheers,

Otto

[jpmorris]

Originally Posted by ofajen

Did Quantegy actually buy out the 3M tape formulations and equipment? I never heard of it. I don't recall Quantegy ever making any 3M formulations.

I've heard that's where GP9 came from.

Originally Posted by Beck

Yeah, this bunch doesn’t include the tape manufacturing facilities, or mixing, spreading and slitting assemblies, but I doubt those would be sold in this sort of format.

Yes, it occurred to me that the machinery is likely to be somewhat intrinsic to the facility.
One question - does Quantegy have just the one plant, or is there another responsible for HDD and other such manufacturing etc?

[Beck]

Originally Posted by ofajen

Did Quantegy actually buy out the 3M tape formulations and equipment? I never heard of it. I don't recall Quantegy ever making any 3M formulations.

Cheers,

Otto

Quantegy started by spinning off from Ampex in 1995. They then acquired the 3M magnetic tape division in 1996. The 3M film and data storage divisions became Imation. Quantegy’s GP9 introduced in the fall of ’98 was based on a combination of an improved 3M 996 as well as elements from 499. Other 3M inspired tapes…

408... part 3M 808 and part Ampex 406 with an improved binder
480 … elements of Ampex 478 and 3M 908
8206 logging tape (used to be 3M 8206)

The plastic snap-open setup box Quantegy used was also a 3M design.

Most of the 3M technology was quietly incorporated by tweaking existing Ampex model numbers.

http://www.thembj.org/mbdb/3m-basf-s...tape-divisions

[ofajen]

Originally Posted by Beck

Quantegy started by spinning off from Ampex in 1995. They then acquired the 3M magnetic tape division in 1996. The 3M film and data storage divisions became Imation. Quantegy’s GP9 introduced in the fall of ’98 was based on a combination of an improved 3M 996 as well as elements from 499.

I should have made the connection. We were discussing tape formulations a few years back on the Ampex list and someone referred to GP9 as 996 cooked in a new kitchen. Thanks!

Otto

[ofajen]

Originally Posted by ofajen

I should have made the connection. We were discussing tape formulations a few years back on the Ampex list and someone referred to GP9 as 996 cooked in a new kitchen.

I should probably never post here when I have the flu. My memory seems to be impaired. Thanks, again!

Cheers,

Otto

[Beck]

Not to worry... I've posted with a fever of over 102 F before. You can probably go back and figure out which posts those were.

And I'm sure someone is thinking, "Gee Tim, how long did you have that fever?"

Hope you feel better soon, by the way.

[jjones1700]

Okay, I've got the question that everyone is really thinking.................if a 3rd major player comes into the tape market...................who the hell is going to start putting out new decks?!?!?!?