Continuous Sustain pedal??

[zuma]

Hi,

I got a studiologic vmk 188 some time ago, after playing with roland's rd 700sx and feeling that digital is a good way to go. The Rd had continuous sustain/damper control and I thought that should be standard. However, after I got my vmk 188 I found that the standard midi CC64 for sustain is only discrete! I tried googling and some ppl claim you can program other CC and in effect get continuous sustain. Any one has any clue how to do that?

[ActionHead]

I have the VMK 188, and if you use a PEDAL that is a continuous pedal, the studiologic will accept continuous control on any cc including 64...

[altitude909]

The way I did it was just to change the behavior of the sustain trigger from momentary to latch on my master controller

[zuma]

Originally Posted by altitude909

The way I did it was just to change the behavior of the sustain trigger from momentary to latch on my master controller

I don't think there is such an option for the vmk 188 and I've RTFM... all it says is to program the pedals to send midi ccs you want. And by specification the midi sustain is discrete. For instance Im using the keyboard in cubase. For sustain there is only on (127) or off (0). I've read the manual of the rd 700sx too, seems like it is providing the sustain itself (to the audio, not midi). If you record midi then it becomes discrete again.

So bottom line is, if you are using a midi controller (and can therefore only record midi), then you can only do discrete pedaling, is that correct? But midi does provide continuous ccs, like 36 (called foot controller), any way to use these?

[altitude909]

Originally Posted by zuma

I don't think there is such an option for the vmk 188 and I've RTFM... all it says is to program the pedals to send midi ccs you want. And by specification the midi sustain is discrete. For instance Im using the keyboard in cubase. For sustain there is only on (127) or off (0). I've read the manual of the rd 700sx too, seems like it is providing the sustain itself (to the audio, not midi). If you record midi then it becomes discrete again.

So bottom line is, if you are using a midi controller (and can therefore only record midi), then you can only do discrete pedaling, is that correct? But midi does provide continuous ccs, like 36 (called foot controller), any way to use these?

Foot controller is not sustain, it is like a pitchbend and has 128 values (aka "expression" pedal) If you can program the CC try just sending sustain on. You can also try reversing the polarity of your sustain pedal so it will be on always and taping will make it off

[zuma]

Thx for your reply. I tested the pedal message received from the vmk, its mostly concentrated at 0 15 24 and 127. Same results for all 3 pedal inputs for all 2 pedals that I have (one ps100 included with the vmk and one m-gear).

I will test the pedal messages received from the rd 700sx using the same pedals and report back if any one is interested.

Also it turns out that one main issue could be the low quality sample based piano i was using. I dug deeper and found a demo of a simulation based one, pianoteq, that claims to support continuous pedaling. Trying now...

[TexRoadkill]

What are you hoping to achieve? Sustain is either on or off and once you use up the polyphony of your keyboard or softsynth the notes will turn off even with the sustain pedal on.

[zuma]

I just want it to be as real as possible. But when i use the pedal with say pianoteq demo, often the sustain breaks... The same goes for sample based piano. I have all the settings at the highest (quad core, presonus firebox firewire soundcard, 4x320GB raid 0); I doubt if I have exhausted the polyphony. It's not my playing because I have never had the same problem with any acoustic piano...

[zuma]

Ok, after extensive testing I have the following conclusions.

Equipment: Fatar Studiologic VMK188 (m gear pedal+ps100 pedal), Roland RD 700SX (m gear pedal), Steinway A (out of tune and moderately maintained)

VSTs: Pianoteq, Ivory (with extensive tweaking).

Comp: quad core, 4GB ram, 4x320GB Raid 0.





VMK188 + Pianoteq:
- main negative- sounds too plastic. Tweaking with the settings is like melting the plastic... into an even messier plastic.

+ Main positive- full velocity response (in contrast to all sample based ones).

VMK188 + Ivory:
- main negatives- uneven response (reproducible with Rd 700SX + Ivory so it's not the VMK188's fault; not present in playing the steinway so it's not my technique). In particular, some of the lower notes would suddenly roar. Most of the higher notes sounded too muffled. Often the sustain would break (as in I still have it depressed but no sustain).

-main positive- sounds much less plastic than pianoteq.

Rd 700SX with in built sound (superb grand A to be precise):
- main negative- low keys a bit fake

+ main positives- great reverb and chorus, great response, good set of instruments.



All in all, very disappointed after spending 1K+ (some of the equipment/VSTs are not mine but my dorm's / lab's). Read a lot of reviews about how cool Ivory is, IMHO those who said it's better than or indistinguishable from the real thing have either limited technique, problem with their ears, or have never really played a good grand. If I can hear the huge difference than I'm sure 90% of you can...

Thanks for reading!