Original song - mix comments welcome

[Acoustic-Fury]

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page...songID=6217600


The name of the song is "LOL"

Original song that I recorded direct with a Taylor 310ce.

I used an Mbox (the original 2 port) into Protools 7.3 (for those that use pro tools and might be able to offer some suggestions).

The vocals were done on a Blue Bluebird mic and I used Melodyne pitch correction software because I'm a pitchy, shitty singer and don't have as much time to practice vocals. I'm really not a vocalist...which I really wish wasn't the case.

I used PC Drummer 5 software with Drumagog.

I used Amplitube LE plugin to convert the acoustic guitar.

I used a Fender P-bass through an Ampeg SVT3 Pro direct to a Tube Pac Pre-Amp/Compressor direct to an Mbox.

I mixed down using DT770 pro...I know...but because of the above plugins...I haven't been able to afford the monitors...heh...yet.


Any suggestions for the mix would be greatly appreciated.

[NYMorningstar]

It has it's own sound to it which is good so I'm not sure you want to change it. The songs cool the vocals good. If you want it more commercial sounding then I'd add a bassline and cymbals except the change in the middle, that's pretty cool and I like as is.

[jayfray84]

I like it a lot...

[SnakeDog5050]

Dig the guitar tones and aggressive punk writing here, the tune kicks ass! On top of what of NYmorning star said, I think the vox are a good volume, but could be separated from everything else a bit better.. maybe try doing a vox track and an everything else track... then using an EQ to grab the vox's best frequency and raising it... then dropping that same frequency on the rest of the music to blend the two better... anyway, just an idea to try... pretty sweet tune overall, enjoyed it

[Acoustic-Fury]

Originally Posted by NYMorningstar

It has it's own sound to it which is good so I'm not sure you want to change it. The songs cool the vocals good. If you want it more commercial sounding then I'd add a bassline and cymbals except the change in the middle, that's pretty cool and I like as is.

Thanks MS! I do like the sounds I kind of stumbled on...I kind of like the rawness of it - if that makes any sense!

Melodyne is a godsend for people who are picky about their vocal inadequacies. I used to spend take after take - even days on vocals...then scrap them later in disgust. I don't have the time nor the patience anymore so I got the software and it really helps - you can even go back and tweak vocal pitches and get creative after you've laid the tracks down.

This was actually my 7th mix. In the first couple mixes I had doubled up the bass line and run a high pass and compressed the hell out of the second one. I had way too much of a bass bleed (even when I really lowered the levels) and it was sapping the drums, my vocals and guitar lines. So after messing around...I scrapped the second bass line and compressed and high passed the bass. There is a bass line there...but your comments are making me think twice and that I should bring it back up in the mix. I'm just afraid of getting that bass bleed and losing that instrument separation again.

Yes I hate the sound of synth cymbals...and I should take the time to add in my own cymbal hits.

Originally Posted by jayfray84

I like it a lot...

Thanks Jay!

Originally Posted by SnakeDog5050

Dig the guitar tones and aggressive punk writing here, the tune kicks ass! On top of what of NYmorning star said, I think the vox are a good volume, but could be separated from everything else a bit better.. maybe try doing a vox track and an everything else track... then using an EQ to grab the vox's best frequency and raising it... then dropping that same frequency on the rest of the music to blend the two better... anyway, just an idea to try... pretty sweet tune overall, enjoyed it

Thanks a lot for the feedback SD5050! Yea...I was pretty happy with the Amplitube LE guitar model. I really think going direct with my acoustic gave the guitar model a lot to work with. Those are presets...I didn't mess around with customizing at all and even left the reverby chorus there.

If I may pick your brain a bit here...the vocal volume I agree is fine where it is in the mix and you hit the nail on the head - I just need more separation. May I ask, how do I do a vox track and an everything else track?

The art of frequency knowledge I am extremely limited on.

So do I bounce the two (vocal and everything else) and then bring them back into pro tools as two tracks? Then take the vocal track and add some EQ to it (almost like a high pass) and then take the everything else and add a low pass EQ?


Thanks again for the feedback - and I dig on your tunes Snake. Highly creative...I wish I had that energy and spontaneity in my songwriting. Mine can be a little too structured and stuffy.

[dreamer7]

Hi AF,
Nice touch to use acoustic guitars instead of electric, as it gives a different sound to the norm for this sort of stuff. It's a good new wavey/punky-type song and the mix sounds pretty good on my headphones, although to me it sounds as if the vocals should come up just a little throughout (apart from when it has the megaphone type effect on it).

dreamer7

[heatmiser]

this has great energy to it and definitely the rawness you refer to.

despite the potential problems you mention, i would want to hear the bass at least a tad louder. the drums sound a bit mechanical during the verses at times, but it all comes together quite well during the chorus.

nice job

[Acoustic-Fury]

Originally Posted by dreamer7

Hi AF,
Nice touch to use acoustic guitars instead of electric, as it gives a different sound to the norm for this sort of stuff. It's a good new wavey/punky-type song and the mix sounds pretty good on my headphones, although to me it sounds as if the vocals should come up just a little throughout (apart from when it has the megaphone type effect on it).

dreamer7

Thanks dreamer! I'm going to try and isolate the vocals to possibly round them out. I'm not too sure...but some high EQ might do the trick (I have no idea...I guess that is what experimentation is for...heh)

Thank you for the suggestion and I agree.

That vocal line in the middle seems louder because of the dynamics of the part...something I totally lucked into! I didn't turn anything up or down...how loud you hear it is how loud the lead vocals are throughout the song (of course minus the megaphone effect - which is actually one of the Amplitube LE guitar model effects...I then elongated the warblely whistle with melodyne...it kind of filled up the void with something interesting...I really wasn't feeling a solo during that part because the drums were doing something that I wanted to be the focal point).

Originally Posted by heatmiser

this has great energy to it and definitely the rawness you refer to.

despite the potential problems you mention, i would want to hear the bass at least a tad louder. the drums sound a bit mechanical during the verses at times, but it all comes together quite well during the chorus.

nice job

Thanks heatmiser...yea drumagog helps round out the mechanicalness of the kick and snare (but those cymbals are brutal...I try and bury them as much as possible) and at times the drum software is almost too much on time and makes parts sound a little funny...it almost loses it's groove.

I do need to get that bass line up a bit. Right now I either adjust the EQ to allow some of the bass in or turn up the bass track slider. I think what I'm going to do is adjust the EQ a bit on the high side and drag the slider up a couple notches. I didn't have time to do the tweaks tonight...but I'll adjust the mix with everyone's suggestions and repost tomorrow.

Thanks again guys!

[SnakeDog5050]

Originally Posted by Acoustic-Fury

Thanks a lot for the feedback SD5050! Yea...I was pretty happy with the Amplitube LE guitar model. I really think going direct with my acoustic gave the guitar model a lot to work with. Those are presets...I didn't mess around with customizing at all and even left the reverby chorus there.

If I may pick your brain a bit here...the vocal volume I agree is fine where it is in the mix and you hit the nail on the head - I just need more separation. May I ask, how do I do a vox track and an everything else track?

The art of frequency knowledge I am extremely limited on.

So do I bounce the two (vocal and everything else) and then bring them back into pro tools as two tracks? Then take the vocal track and add some EQ to it (almost like a high pass) and then take the everything else and add a low pass EQ?


Thanks again for the feedback - and I dig on your tunes Snake. Highly creative...I wish I had that energy and spontaneity in my songwriting. Mine can be a little too structured and stuffy.

Hey man, thanks about my tunes, really appreciate it What I mean by my comment (what I do personally) is if you can bounce an entire collection of tracks to a bus, then try doing a music bus and a vocal bus, then mixing those together with separating EQ frequencies. I'm no expert, but say for example, you sweep around that vocal track until you find a frequency that your vocals sound the best to you and raise it a bit.... like possibly 2.5Khz ends being mine several times. Then if you take that same frequency on the music track and drop it you can drop the vocal track in volume and raise the music more to blend them better. In my experience it helps make a vocal track louder and clearer without actually raising the Db's on that track. Just something to try...

[Acoustic-Fury]

I've never used the bus functions...mainly because I don't know what they do...I was always concerned with improving my mixes too much!


I'll crack open the manual and/or surf around a bit to find out how to do what you are suggesting.

Your suggestion sounds like it's just what I need at this point.

I love learning new stuff...thanks for the direction!

[Supercreep]

Nice work - I like you lyrics and vocal delivery. The only nits I can pick are the snare sound - but only during the 16th note fills - I don't think they work, they just sound too machine like. YMMV. Good song.

[chrisharris]

I thought that was fantastic. Melodic, but not corny like my stuff. Kinda' Reminded me of early XTC.

Very very enjoyable listen.

[Acoustic-Fury]

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/defa...?bandID=688198


I raised the bass and lightened up a tad on the high pass of the bass EQ.

Snakedog - I did your suggestion of creating a vocal bus and a music bus...man that really is a cool thing to be able to do - thanks for the heads up!

I did the vocal bus at +2.5 and the music bus at -2.5.

I also high pass EQ'd both bus's to round out the low end and try and brighten it up a bit...not sure if it works well or not.

The bus method seemed subtle enough and I think it worked...although I can't tell if the bridge megaphone is ripping my face off...my ears are a little shot at the moment.

Originally Posted by Supercreep

Nice work - I like you lyrics and vocal delivery. The only nits I can pick are the snare sound - but only during the 16th note fills - I don't think they work, they just sound too machine like. YMMV. Good song.

Thank you for the words. Yea...I try like hell to get that roboness out of the drums. Maybe instead of straight fills next time I'll try some staccato type fills to break it up a bit.

Originally Posted by chrisharris

I thought that was fantastic. Melodic, but not corny like my stuff. Kinda' Reminded me of early XTC.

Very very enjoyable listen.

CH thanks! As a fan of your stuff that means a lot...I'll take the XTC compliment - they were an influence in this diverse melting pot of music that I grew up listening to.

[Acoustic-Fury]

http://soundclick.com/share?songid=6217600


Okay...this is it. This is my 11th mix and I've gone through the whole sonic spectrum and spent all weekend trying to learn how to improve the vocals in this mix. I also gave the bass a little bit more pop to round out the edges and I think I've finally got rid of that bass bleed that was sapping everything.

This was a huge learning experience and I appreciate all the feedback you guys gave me in this thread. It really made me practice and go out and try and learn what the hell to do with this mix...I've still got a LONG way to go but it's starting to click...just a little bit.

Thanks again!