Thin Vocals - Help

[MIKEPELLE]

Hello

I am in the process of recording vocals for a singer with a regular rock/metal type voice.

I recorded the choruses on two songs using a SM57 into my Q10 then to Cubase. I tripled tracked the vocals. The performance is fine but the vocals even though tripled sound so thin. hard to explain but almost like the vocal tracks are mono or lo-fi quality. When I recorded these tracks I had very hot signals in fact I was worried about clipping but the final wave forms on the monitor screen even look thin.

I will most likely re-record the vox to try again but someone suggested that my problem lies entirely with my mic choice. They said a SM-57 would produce these results and that I should get a condenser mic.

Any thoughts on this would be appreciated -Is it just my mic or am I missing something else? I have recorded other real heavy bands with the SM-57 and the vocals came out great and very loud but then again those guys were screaming.

Any tips or advice on a solid vocal mic besides a SM57 or 58 would be awesome.

Thanks in advance

Mike Pelle

[mixsit]

What distance to the mic did you use? Most directional mics are position dependent and the point where they have a balanced or neutral vs thin tone vary a lot. Mics like the 57 are tailored to be full' or near flat up around 1-2".

[Massive Master]

When I recorded these tracks I had very hot signals

That's your first absolutely gigantic and irreversible mistake.

but the final wave forms on the monitor screen even look thin

There's might be an issue there somewhere. Or it's normal -- When you're recording vocals, I'd be looking for peaks around -10dBFS at the absolute maximum. Your converters are probably calibrated to -18dBFS (=line level) so even that's pushing it. Personally, I'd be looking for peaks closer to -16 or -14dBFS. But I get off on having a lot of headroom and then keeping it for as long as possible - Because I like "big" sounding mixes. And "big" requires headroom and dynamics.

But I digress and rant...

Anyway, you need to find out if you're being squelched on the way in somewhere.

I'd rather use a 58 than a 57 - But I'd rather use a SM7b over most mics. Certainly over most condensers for aggressive vocals... I'd ignore the guy who told you that you need a condenser...

(EDIT) And for sure - If you do use a dynamic (again, I'd suggest it also), get the vocalist up on it. If you want "in your face" you need to get the mic "in your face" - Well, in the vocalist's face.

[TyphoidHippo]

Originally Posted by MIKEPELLE

the vocals even though tripled sound so thin...

...They said a SM-57 would produce these results and that I should get a condenser mic.

That's horrible advice. Engineers go to dynamic microphones (like the SM57...although usually an SM7 for recording purposes) specifically for the purpose of "thickening" up a thin sounding voice.

You've gotten good suggestions already - move your singer closer to the microphone, and don't get such a hot signal that you're clipping your converter.

If, after trying those things, you still have a weak, thin sounding vocal track - then double the track in Cubase, smash the hell out of the doubled track (by overcompressing the snot out of it) and slowly bring the level of the smashed track into the mix until you hear the vocal start thickening up... Works every time, Just don't overdo it - I mean only use just enough of your supersmashed doubled vocal track to achieve the thickening, and it should be good to go.

Hope that helps, and good luck!

P.S. You can post a soundclip to get better advice - I have a feeling we may not even be understanding what you are trying to describe. I recommend you render a clip of the vocal to an MP3 in Cubase, and upload it to http://lightningmp3.com if none of these suggestions get you squared away.

[katmandoo]

Here's a little tip...use if you like. I learned this from watching an interview with Bjorn (from abba). What he does is he will record a stereo vocal track, then dump it down to a mono track, then cut out about 1/100 of a second or less at the very beggining of the mono track (some like more, some like less... use your ears) then pitch shift it up minutely by 1/10 with time/pitch--stretch effect, name the track "vocal double 1" then...save the tracks... then copy that same mono vocal double track and rename it say "vocal double 2" then, insert it back into the session but about 1/100 of a second behind the 1st mono vocal double track (you have to zoom in horizontally in edit view quite a ways to get 1/100 of a second by the way) , then pitch shift it down minutely by 1/10 with time/pitch--stretch.. Then take the 2 mono vocal double tracks and pan them left 50 and the other right 50, or whatever suits your mix and bring them down in the mix say -5, -6 each. What this creates is a triple track of the same vocal track, but slightly pitched up and down to create a "BIG" sounding vocal track with no messy double tracking s's and p's...
ps...you can compress all 3 tracks after at about 2 or 4% and it will be so punchy...
Listen here to my stuff on this site.. http://www.airplaydirect.com/SawyerandHodge
listen to "Spanish Eyes" and you'll hear it on the lead voc track.
Like them or hate them, abba have a great vocal sound and very big at that...this works for all types of music from metal to folk so try it out. I do this on almost every lead vocal track. It makes the lead vocals stand out like there's 3 people singing the same song almost perfectly in unison..hope this helps anybody who tries it.

"A writer writes....always"

Katmandoo

[TexRoadkill]

We just used a Beta 58 on most of the vocals of our last album and I often use 57's. They give you a nice midrange sound without too much room or sibilance issues.

I would try some light compression to take a little off the top and then slam it into a limiter. If it still sounds thin you can try a bit of quck delay to help thicken it up. Sometimes a submix with some amp sim or distortion can help a rock vocal cut through.

[MIKEPELLE]

Thanks for the advice. I will keep an eye on the levels when I redo these vocals. Also the singer was about foot or so from the dynamic mic so I will get him up closer and have that mic in his face.

I was thinking of posting some mp3s. I will check these suggestions and if there is still an issue I will certainly post some tracks.

Thanks again to all who responded.

Mike Pelle

[mixsit]

Originally Posted by MIKEPELLE

Thanks for the advice. I will keep an eye on the levels when I redo these vocals. Also the singer was about foot or so from the dynamic mic so I will get him up closer and have that mic in his face.

I was thinking of posting some mp3s. I will check these suggestions and if there is still an issue I will certainly post some tracks.

Thanks again to all who responded.

Mike Pelle

Yep, pull up a graph for 57/58 -slopes down, except when close, then you get the lift. Lots of LDC's work back that far back.

[elly-d]

double tracking and triple tracking should work, it works alot better if you do it for real rather than offsetting and pitchshifting a duplicate, in my opinion anyway.

[mixsit]

Originally Posted by MIKEPELLE

Hello

I am in the process of recording vocals for a singer with a regular rock/metal type voice.

I recorded the choruses on two songs using a SM57 into my Q10 then to Cubase. I tripled tracked the vocals. The performance is fine but the vocals even though tripled sound so thin...

Thanks in advance
Mike Pelle

The first post..

[Robert D]

Nice vocal on Spanish Eyes, Katman. The method you described is a great alternative to dub tracks, especially when a singer can't nail the dub tracks. But even if they can, sometimes it's a matter of integrity to the singer, or of intimacy and clarity on a particular song, to keep it real with one vocal. Good post.

Mike - My guess would be that the singer was off the 57 too much. That mic needs to employ some proximity effect to deliver the beef on a vocal.

[IainDearg]

1. Duplicate your vocal track
2. Feed one through an eq with boosts at about 100 and and 10k or (high-shelf) and compress the hell out it.
3. Mix to taste with the other track.

Dave
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