Switching phase on KRK5s?

[Das Poop]

I'd like to try recording some vocals without headphones. I've read that if you switch the phase of one of the speakers, you can find a deadspot to reduce/minimze bleed...this is apparently a pretty common trick.

The problem is that the KRK 5s don't appear to have a phase switch (unless I'm losing my mind or it's labeled as something else). Is this possible with the KRK 5s?

Can I do this through software (Cakewalk SONAR) or my board (Makie Onyx)?

[Almy]

Do you maybe mean switching the phase on mics that are recording the same source from a close proximity?

[Das Poop]

Originally Posted by Almy

Do you maybe mean switching the phase on mics that are recording the same source from a close proximity?

No. That is not what I mean. The goal is to track vocals without headphones on and getting the reference speakers to cancel eachother out, thus reducing what the vocal mic pics up. Similar concept to what you are talking about but fundamentally different.

Read the last paragraph here:
http://www.tapeop.com/magazine/bonus...dingvocals.pdf

This is one explaination, but this trick is often referenced when search for ideas around tracking vocals without headphones....I just don't know how to execute it!

[NYMorningstar]

Just switch the polarity, the + with the - on one of your speaker wires. That will put the speakers 180 degrees out of phase. It basically cancels out what was recorded in the middle. A lot of karaoeke people do this because the vocals are usually in the middle.

[DonF]

Originally Posted by NYMorningstar

It basically cancels out what was recorded in the middle.

Yes, and if you send a mono mix to your monitors, it cancels out everything -- but only at those points that are exactly on the centerline between the two speakers. And that's the trick: You place the microphone exactly on the centerline, while your ears are not on the centerline (not both ears at the same time). The effectiveness of this approach is reduced by room reflections, which are rarely symmetrical.

I would recommend using a very sparse monitor mix for this purpose, because some bleed is inevitable.

Don

[MessianicDreams]

Originally Posted by NYMorningstar

Just switch the polarity, the + with the - on one of your speaker wires. That will put the speakers 180 degrees out of phase. It basically cancels out what was recorded in the middle. A lot of karaoeke people do this because the vocals are usually in the middle.

that's easy to do if you're using passive speakers. on the active KRK's, this is going to be a little harder to do, involving unsoldering and resoldering a 3-pole cable.

try this:


create the mix you want. bounce that down as a mono file. put this mono file on to 2 mono tracks. insert a plugin with which you can invert the polarity of one track, and set the output of one track to be the right speaker and the other to be the left speaker.

exactly between the two speakers, the two should completely cancel out - ignoring any interference such as reflection etc.


However, i suggest that this would sound rather strange indeed and probably affect the performance of the singer considerably more than wearing headphones...

[Almy]

Sweet I got to learn something new!

[Das Poop]

Thanks guys! I've tried MessianicDreams' suggestion. It seems to work well enough. There is definitely a touch more bleed than headphones but it's not noticable when all of the tracks are playing...

[Wazn]

In your DAW

Create 2 MONO tracks.
Send one to the Left Speaker
Send other to the Right Speaker OUT OF PHASE

Make sure your mic is placed in front of the speakers mic level, (your facing the speakers) and the speakers are at the same angle and width apart as-well as facing you.

MAKE SURE YOU HAVE...
- one track 180 degrees out of phase
- speakers at the exact same angle facing inwards
- have the speakers mic level if possible
- have the mid in the middle of the speakers (maintain space for the sound to travel from each speaker to the mic at same angles and distances)

[MessianicDreams]

Originally Posted by Das Poop

Thanks guys! I've tried MessianicDreams' suggestion. It seems to work well enough. There is definitely a touch more bleed than headphones but it's not noticable when all of the tracks are playing...

glad it worked out all right with you.


You'll get better cancellation if you drop some of the hi frequency information too, but that might make it unpleasant to listen to..