Ebay purchase

[eyeteeth]

I'm a bass player... but dabble with guitar enough to record my own music. So I couldn't help my self but to trow a bid out there. Dang if I didn't win.

So, I am now the proud owner of a late 80's Carvin x-60B Tube amp with foot switch for just over $300 shipped! I already have an X-60 combo and it is VERY 70's vintage Marshall sounding. I'm hoping this has the same characteristics with added flexibility due to the simple graphic EQ and FX Loop. I'm pretty excited.

http://www.carvinmuseum.com/decade/images/87-x100b.html
http://www.carvinmuseum.com/vintagea...pmoct-vai.html

[lpdeluxe]

I had a 1982 X-amp (with the cool oak case and cane grille), which I bought new, and the one thing I did that improved it out of all measure was a Torres Tone Kit. It adds a gain stage (and a preamp tube).

http://www.torresengineering.com/carvinxampkit.html

I no longer own the amp (traded it in on a Korg D888) mostly because it was too big for what I do -- I replaced it with a modded Pignose G40V that weighs about a third of the Carvin -- but I gigged with it for years.

[eyeteeth]

I am well aware of the Torres Mod. I was contemplating it for my X60 combo until I heard it through a 4x12 loaded with Greenbacks. Perfect, Pure, Vintage tone. I don't want to mess that up.

Depending on how this one sounds, I may or may not do the mod to this head... I still have the combo that I can slave cabinets off, so I could Hot Rod this one, and keep the other one "vintage".

But thanks for posting the link again. I'm not sure I had it saved.

[lpdeluxe]

Torres claims to have "revoiced" the later X amps by Carvin's request, and yours is probably an example. In that case it's possible yours is better than mine, out of the box.

My oak amp was too "hi-fi" when I got it, unless I boosted the drive fairly high. My previous amp (which I still have) was a Sears Silvertone Twin Twelve, which had sweet distortion...and I thought ALL amps should sound that way! I couldn't find it on the Carvin, which led to the Torres Tone Kit.

FWIW, the G40V I mentioned has a variation of the Silvertone circuitry inside -- no doubt why it sounds so good.

[eyeteeth]

I know in the later years they went from the 6L6 tubes to EL84... I don't really know the difference, but I think both amps I have are from '87. i know they both have the 6L6 tubes...

I didn't know that extra nugget about Torres. I'll have to do some more reading... sounds like Torres would have VERY good knowledge of the circuitry so there little doubt the Mod is "cool".

[ggunn]

Originally Posted by eyeteeth

I know in the later years they went from the 6L6 tubes to EL84... I don't really know the difference, but I think both amps I have are from '87. i know they both have the 6L6 tubes...

I didn't know that extra nugget about Torres. I'll have to do some more reading... sounds like Torres would have VERY good knowledge of the circuitry so there little doubt the Mod is "cool".

A pair of 6L6's make about 40 watts and a pair of EL84's make about half that.

[eyeteeth]

Originally Posted by ggunn

A pair of 6L6's make about 40 watts and a pair of EL84's make about half that.

That's it? There's got to be something else. I could swear I was reading a thread somewhere that they were discussing the merits of each, which ones were preferred...?

[lpdeluxe]

More likely the change was to EL34s, which produce more power. My Music Man HD130 has 4 EL34s, and is rated at (what a coincidence!) 130WRMS. In fact, some were made (if memory serves) with a bias switch so you could run either the 6L6 or EL34 tubes.

I have been told by people with more experience that the EL34s are "harder" and have to be pushed more to distort, while the 6L6 are "softer" and distort earlier. It's hard to tell with the MM, since it has a solid state pre (with the exception of a phase-inverter 12AX7) and (unless you distort the preamp tube) has to be played LOUD to get any distortion.

Most of my tube amps have used 6L6s (Sears Silvertone, the Carvin, the Pignose) with the exception of the MM and an Ampeg B15N I used to have (I don't remember what it used: Everett Hull was famous for allowing the tube salesmen to sweet-talk him into using oddball tubes that were gathering dust in inventory; it cost a LOT to retube the B15N because ALL the tubes were not readily available. It's someone else's darlin' now).

I also have a Dynaco stereo integrated amp (hi-fi type) that uses a quartet of EL84s, and, sure enough, it's rated at 40WRMS.

[ggunn]

Originally Posted by eyeteeth

That's it? There's got to be something else. I could swear I was reading a thread somewhere that they were discussing the merits of each, which ones were preferred...?

I suspect it is like someone else suggested, that you mean EL34's instead of EL84's. EL34's and 6L6's are much more similar than are EL84's and 6L6's.

[eyeteeth]

Found a new thread on the reissue x-100b Carvin is planning to release, and the 6L6 seems to be what they're hoping for. The EL84's they say aren't as crisp... they're "fuzzy"?

I did also read where someone switched to KT77's and REALLY loved the tone as they cleaned up the tone quite a bit.

[lpdeluxe]

I read something recently that said KT stood for "Kill Twitter" or some such. They were designed by a British valve mfr specifically to clean up audio signals routed through 6L6s, so what you read is probably true.

[seansdadj]

I believe that KT means "Kill Twitter" too.

[eyeteeth]

lpdeluxe...

Can you tell me more about the Torres mod? The Amp arrived the other day, and I'm really pretty happy with the sound, with the Active EQ and the graphic EQ I really get a wide range of tones out of it.

I like the vintage Marshal tone I can get out of it now, but other times I'd like something that can totally rip. I'm curious if I would loose that low gain Marshally breakup if I installed the Mod. I'm debating between that or finding a good boost to use so I hit the tubes harder on the front end...

What do you remember?
Thanks.

[lpdeluxe]

Originally Posted by eyeteeth

lpdeluxe...

Can you tell me more about the Torres mod? The Amp arrived the other day, and I'm really pretty happy with the sound, with the Active EQ and the graphic EQ I really get a wide range of tones out of it. What do you remember?
Thanks.

The Torres kit replaced several caps and resistors to change the voicing, and added a 12AX7 tube to the preamp. When I sold the amp I included the schematic from Torres with it so I can't give exact details. By the way, a friend and I installed it in about an hour and a half.

As it came from Carvin, the amp had a super-clean, hi-fi sound on the rhythm channel and a somewhat harsh (Marshall 'roar') distortion on the drive channel. As I understand it, the distortion was actually of the "stomp-box" variety rather than actual tube overdrive. I think I said it had 6L6 bottles in it -- not long after, Carvin switched to EL34s, which I never tried in that amp. Anyhow, the new parts gave the clean channel a more musical tone.

The new tube required installing an extra pot (mounted easily in the upper of the two input jack spaces) that controlled the level going into it. This allowed me to dial in a little distortion that had a much more natural sound to it, and provided much more control than the "master/drive" pot combo in the factory stock configuration.

Everything was a trifle on the tight side, but it all got in there with plenty of air circulation around the tube.

To me, it turned the Carvin from a one-trick pony into a really useful amp for a lot of different genres. I did blues, rock, and Ry Cooder-style slide guitar with it, and it always put out a sweet, present tone.

For what it's worth, I later took the amp to the local (very experienced) amp tech -- I seem to remember the Zener diode died for the second or third time) and he remarked that it was a nicely fitted kit.

Had I been younger, and gigging on guitar more, I would have kept it (beautiful oak cab, cane grille, after all!) but it was too damn heavy. Right now I'm playing guitar again, after a couple of years as a full time bass player, but I'm using a modified Pignose G40V and a borrowed '67 Super Reverb.

[lpdeluxe]

Originally Posted by eyeteeth

lpdeluxe...

Can you tell me more about the Torres mod? The Amp arrived the other day, and I'm really pretty happy with the sound, with the Active EQ and the graphic EQ I really get a wide range of tones out of it. What do you remember?
Thanks.

The Torres kit replaced several caps and resistors to change the voicing, and added a 12AX7 tube to the preamp. When I sold the amp I included the schematic from Torres with it so I can't give exact details. By the way, a friend and I installed it in about an hour and a half.

As it came from Carvin, the amp had a super-clean, hi-fi sound on the rhythm channel and a somewhat harsh (Marshall 'roar') distortion on the drive channel. As I understand it, the distortion was actually of the "stomp-box" variety rather than actual tube overdrive. I think I said it had 6L6 bottles in it -- not long after, Carvin switched to EL34s, which I never tried in that amp. Anyhow, the new parts gave the clean channel a more musical tone.

The new tube required installing an extra pot (mounted easily in the upper of the two input jack spaces) that controlled the level going into it. This allowed me to dial in a little distortion that had a much more natural sound to it, and provided much more control than the "master/drive" pot combo in the factory stock configuration.

Everything was a trifle on the tight side, but it all got in there with plenty of air circulation around the tube.

To me, it turned the Carvin from a one-trick pony into a really useful amp for a lot of different genres. I did blues, rock, and Ry Cooder-style slide guitar with it, and it always put out a sweet, present tone.

For what it's worth, I later took the amp to the local (very experienced) amp tech (I seem to remember the Zener diode died for the second or third time) and he remarked that it was a nicely fitted kit.

Had I been younger, and gigging on guitar more, I would have kept it (beautiful oak cab, cane grille, after all!) but it was too damn heavy. Right now I'm playing guitar again, after a couple of years as a full time bass player, but I'm using a modified Pignose G40V and a borrowed '67 Super Reverb.

[eyeteeth]

I guess the question at this point... did it kill the "Marshall roar" or just give you more options besides it and a higher fidelity tone?

How drastically did it change the character? I'm digging what I'm getting out of it at about 3-4 pre gain, and very little EQ. But at the same time on occasion, I'd like to get better/more saturated (modernish) tone out of it and I'm hoping it's not an either/or type of thing... ya know?

Again, Thanks.

[lpdeluxe]

Originally Posted by eyeteeth

I guess the question at this point... did it kill the "Marshall roar" or just give you more options besides it and a higher fidelity tone? Again, Thanks.

It didn't kill the original sound, except that the clean channel sounded better to my ear, due to the change in resistors and whatnot. The original was pretty sterile, with no personality.

Once the Torres kit was installed, I essentially had the choice between using the "drive" pot for distortion OR using the gain pot on the preamp tube, depending on whether I wanted one sound or the other. The gain could also be turned all the way off. Very clever design, in my opinion.

Now, if it had only weighed, say, 30 lb instead of 90!

[eyeteeth]

lol... yea, they're heavy, larger than average heads. Thank goodness mine will spend the majority of it's life sitting on a cab in my studio.

I think I'll give the mod a try. Not sure how easy it would be to "reverse" but it sounds like it won't screw too much with what's there now... only broaden the available tonal palette. I like that.

Besides, I guess I still have the combo the "that' sound if it goes too far.

Again, thanks.

[lpdeluxe]

I guess I didn't say that mine was the 1 x 12 combo. The solid oak case made it a real boat anchor. The Torres kit made it a soulful boat anchor.

Good luck. I hope you like it -- I sure did.