I'm a Little Disappointed.

[Zaphod B]

Years ago I fitted my 1976 LP Special reissue with a big brass Schaller bridge - intonatable, with fine tuners - to replace the ragged-out Badass one-piece bridge that was on it when I bought it. I never did have the original one-piece wraparound.

I've grown tired of looking at that big ugly thing, and want to get the guitar closer to its original appearance.

So last week I ordered an intonated wraparound bridge from Guitar Fetish. It was labelled as a "Les Paul Junior / Special Wraparound Bridge" and the product description says, "A perfect recreation of the 1960's Les Paul Junior wrapround bridge, same exact construction as vintage..."

Here's a link to the product: http://store.guitarfetish.com/lespajuwrinb.html

I received the item on Friday, so when I got home from work I got straight to it. Should have been a 15-minute job. It came supplied with the bridge, and new studs and bushings.

First problem: The bridge studs are metric, not standard. (That's not "vintage" to me.) So I can't use the original stud bushings, no problem. I carefully extract one of the bushings, fit in the replacement bushing, and, second problem: find that the new bushing wallows in the hole. Measuring the two, I find that the original bushing is 13mm diameter, and the replacement is 11mm. (That also isn't "vintage," if it won't retrofit a vintage guitar!)

Damn it.

So I emailed Jay at GF. I have found that he is very responsive to customer support inquiries, and so I explained the situation in detail. His response: No, we don't have anything like that weird Gotoh bushing that Gibson uses. He recommended doweling the hole and redrilling.

That ain't gonna happen, not for a $15 replacement bridge.

StewMac has a similar bridge with 13mm standard-threaded bushings, which I have just ordered. I have hopes for a happy ending. At worst I'll just put that butt-ugly Schaller bridge back on, or order a part directly from Gibson.

The moral of the story is: Don't take anything for granted, and just because something is marketed as a form/fit/function replacement doesn't make it true.

[mrface2112]

that sucks. i had a similar problem retrofitting a "vintage" tele bridge to my '88 American tele. the holes didn't match and end the end i just used the saddles (which still don't work quite right).

turns out things in the late 80's at fender were a little different than just about any other time.

i've found stewmac to be a great place for sourcing parts.

dowel and redrill.....uhhhhh.....

cheers,
wade

[Zaphod B]

Originally Posted by mrface2112

dowel and redrill.....uhhhhh.....

My reaction exactly.

[mrface2112]

Originally Posted by Zaphod B

My reaction exactly.

to be honest, that's almost enough to make me question doing business with them.....if they either have no clue as to the value of a '76 Paul....or if they have no qualms about recommending someone wreck their "vintage" guitar.

that concerns me more than anything. b/c they're probably giving out that piece of advice all over the place. that's just reckless, really.


cheers,
wade

[Zaphod B]

I feel the same way, Wade. I started to compose an email to them yesteday but I was having a hard time making it not sound angry, which I was.

I do plan on following up with them, though, to make those points. The product was not as described, and recommending an invasive modification to a 31-year old LP (even if it is a Norlin-era Gibson ) is just plain irresponsible unless there is no alternative.

[mrface2112]

i don't blame you in the least--i'd be PISSED if that's the advice i was given.

sure it's a Norlin-era guitar, but man, in 10 years that thing's gonna be lauded as "rare" or "vintage" and prices will be through the roof. we both know how fleabay hype goes. and if you like the guitar and it plays well, who cares what era it is? i've played a few norlins that i thought were excellent. certainly better than the fenders of similar age.

personally, i'd probably take a couple days "away" from the situation, source the parts i needed from stewmac, return the POS to GF and let it drop.

why? i don't think that i could write an email to them that wouldn't sound pissed. and i don't think that one voice will make a difference to them recommending that to other people.

in the end, i think what you've done is the best answer--posted it to a forum. It'll reach more people that way. hell, i'd post it to The Gear Page as well, just so it'll reach MORE people.

oy. good luck!

cheers,
wade

[lpdeluxe]

You shouldn't have to butcher an instrument to install a replacement part, dammit.

I have dealt with Stewart-McDonald for a number of years now and their stuff is reliable (sometimes it'll take a little tweaking to fit, but, hell, the same thing happens when you buy a part for a car).

FWIW, I've had the Deluxe out quite a bit lately and had the opportunity to play it through a friend's '67 Super Reverb. =sigh= Unfortunately, he wouldn't trade for anything I could come up with....

[normalizer]

it's quite possible that someone before you drilled out the holes to acomodate the badass... support your local luthier!

[Zaphod B]

Originally Posted by normalizer

it's quite possible that someone before you drilled out the holes to acomodate the badass... support your local luthier!

I wouldn't think so, since the Badass studs were 5/16 (standard) - no reason to touch the bushings if the stud threads match.

Basides, his reply email indicated that he was aware of Gibson's use of the larger bushings.

[notCardio]

Check yer pm's.

[Zaphod B]

Originally Posted by notCardio

Check yer pm's.

PMs have been checked.

[Zaphod B]

By the way, for those that are interested I have it on good authority from a respected luthier on another forum that Gibson used 1/2" stud bushings with 5/16" fine thread studs, at least on '50s, 60's, and present-day Gibsons.

[ermghoti]

Ah. Jay has seemed reasonable in the past, I'd guess you'll get your money back. A little disturbing he's listing that as a direct replacement.

[Zaphod B]

I just had an interesting email exchange with Jay.

I emailed him to tell him that I would not be dowelling and redrilling my LP for a $15 replacement bridge, and that I thought his product was misrepresented as a direct replacement and "perfrect recreation." I suggested that he update the product info page to reflect that.

He emailed back and told me that he had based his response to me (recommending dowelling and redrilling) based on the fact that I had ordered a $15 dollar part for my old LP.

What the fuck?

I shot him an email back saying I had ordered the part in the assumption that it was of good quality, and that he was tacitly acknowledging that his parts weren't good enough to go on the guitars for which they were advertised.

He'll accept a return, no problem. But I'm very disappointed in his attitude and I have no faith in any replacement part for sale on that web site.

Lesson learned.

[notCardio]

I'll make sure I don't order my parts from him.

BTW, Z_B, yeah, P-90's

So where could I get a properly intonated wrap-around? Can you still get them from Gibson?

[cusebassman]

Screw all this fixed-bridge nonsense - send the thing out to be routed for a Flloyd

All I can say is... yikes.

http://www.bananas.com/multimedia/ar...llImage/73.jpg

[Zaphod B]

Originally Posted by notCardio

I'll make sure I don't order my parts from him.

BTW, Z_B, yeah, P-90's

So, you going for it?

Originally Posted by notCardio

So where could I get a properly intonated wrap-around? Can you still get them from Gibson?

StewMac sells one that has the correct stud threads and bushings. I have one on order. I don't know if Gibson ever made an intonated wrap-around.

[Zaphod B]

I just sent back the bridge to Guitar Fetish and expect the one from StewMac today or tomorrow.

I'm afraid the StewMac bridge may not be entirely acceptable, either. Even though it has the correct stud threads, it follows "the original design for a wound G string and non-staggered mounting stud placement." Well, my G is unwound, and my mounting stud locations are staggered, so I may not be able to get the intonation anywhere close.

I may just end up with a solid bar, non-intonated, like this:

[lpdeluxe]

A wound G will require the saddle being set back a little further than the unwound, that's all. If the intonation is adjustable the bridge should accommodate the difference.

[Zaphod B]

Originally Posted by lpdeluxe

A wound G will require the saddle being set back a little further than the unwound, that's all. If the intonation is adjustable the bridge should accommodate the difference.

On the one I ordered, it's not adjustable.

[Zaphod B]

Even the "Historic Gibson" true Gibson replacement intonated wraparound bridge from the same site as the picture above has fixed intonation, optimized for a wound G.

I'll try the Stew Mac. My big concern with it is the statement that it's made for non-staggered studs (when were those ever used? )

[Anfontan]

Hey Mr Z., looks like the big brass Schaller bridge is looking better all the time.....................

[lpdeluxe]

Originally Posted by Zaphod B

On the one I ordered, it's not adjustable.

I went back through the posts to see if you had specified and found you hadn't. The intonation will be more of a problem with skinnier strings and less with fatter ones.

Me, I use .011s with a wound 3rd.

[Zaphod B]

Originally Posted by Anfontan

Hey Mr Z., looks like the big brass Schaller bridge is looking better all the time.....................

Nah, I'll get there. Just a couple of speedbumps on the way.

[Zaphod B]

Originally Posted by lpdeluxe

I went back through the posts to see if you had specified and found you hadn't. The intonation will be more of a problem with skinnier strings and less with fatter ones.

Me, I use .011s with a wound 3rd.

I had my new Melody Maker out last night. It uses a single-piece wraparound bridge, and it is just a solid bar with no intonation whatsoever, like that picture above.

The intonation is not perfect but it is perfecty acceptable. I'd settle for that on the LP, so we'll just see what happens with this StewMac bridge.