upgrading cymbals

[raven46]

i have a set of paiste pst3's cymbals

i want to change im looking at a set of meinl

http://www.thomann.de/ie/meinl_mcs_b...e_14_china.htm

i cannot find a review of that set or of meinl cymbals in general... is this set any good??

[isfahani]

yo... if you really want to upgrade then get better cymbals than that, anything with a B8 designation like that set is pretty much 'entry level' cymbals.

I guess it would be a change, but not really a good one. Go out and try some cymbals in person, that's the only way to tell if you like them.

[raven46]

[QUOTE=isfahani;2856717] anything with a B8 designation like that set is pretty much 'entry level' cymbals.
[QUOTE]

hmm.. anyone got a list of these material ratings

[gdavi1]

best way to upgrade cymbals is one by one that way you get the best for your needs and for the price.
say if you are always using your hi-hats go pick up some new beats or something.

Think of your application and replace the most important cymbal to you first.

and remember used is usually always a good deal

[toobalicious]

basically, all "pro-level" cymbals will be of B20 bronze cast from blanks (notable exception in paiste), and their entry-level stuff will be of B8 bronze or even brass stamped from sheets. there are also inexpensive chinese cymbals struck from B20 bronze (wuhan, dream). generally, B20 produces more complex and musical harmonics than B8. that doesnt mean that great cymbals cannot be struck from B8, just as it doesnt mean that a B20 pie wont be a garbage can lid. paiste 2002, for example, are B8 bronze, and their "signature alloy" is B15 bronze. i wouldnt get too caught up in metallurgy, though.

i do recommend trying to find some used zildjian A or sabian AA or similar. used prices are excellent on these, and on average, these will sound better than any pre-pak kind of deal.
a

[coolsoundman]

I myself am a Paiste fan. I guess like the other say, if you look at the bronze value, like the B8's, than they are entry levels. Another way to find out is look at the stamping of the place it is manufactured at. I think the entry level cymbals are made in germany, while the professional models are made in Switzerland. Zildjians and Sabian I don't really know much about, but if you are looking for a good cymbal, go Paiste. The 2002 series are at a very good price and are very great sounding cymbals, imho.

[Rimshot]

I own a couple of Paiste crashes and a ride that I purchased in 1968 and they were the ones made in Switzerland (Formula 602). They have served me well and I use them on occasion, I am pretty much a Zildjian user because I prefer cast cymbals that have then been hammered and lathed. I could be wrong here, but by the look of them, Paiste cymbals appear to be made from sheet. Although they are good sounding, I prefer the bell on the Zildjian cymbals and some of the high end Sabian and Bosphorous and Istanbul cymbals. This is clearly a personal choice.
The cheaper cymbals like the B8 and the entry level Zildjians are also made from sheet but are not tuned and hammered to the exacting standards of Paiste cymbals. I have never been happy with the sound of Paiste ride cymbals, but their crash, splashes and hats are really very good.
If you can find a classic large (over 20") large bell Zildjian Avedis ride, then you will have a superlative ride cymbal. Good Paiste crashes are much more expensive (I don't know why) than the high end Zildjians and I personally don't find them worth the extra money over the Zildjian Custom A cymbals.

[isfahani]

Aaaahhhh A Customs, Zildjian's only remaining good sounding A cymbal line!

I wouldn't use paiste cymbals, no matter what line, even for free. No offense to the company or their users, but in over 20 years of playing I have never heard anything from them that I liked. I was forced to use a set of the "signature" line on someone else's kit once at a multi-band lineup thing and boy was I not happy - not only did they sound funny, but they felt funny to me, too.

Weird, huh?

+1 on the "buy used" concept. Or go check out Dream Cymbals. They do a really good job of getting that old k vibe but won't break the bank, far from it. They're a new brand, but they're gaining in popularity fast. I'd take these over spending $ on an entry level B8 line any day.

[Rimshot]

I always knew them as Wuhan and they seem to have changed their name. The crashes are okay on a strong hit, but sound rather "tinny" and cheap when struck lightly. The splashes are just okay and the rides are absolutely horrid. They have a better character for traditional jazz and blues with the crashes, splash and hats than some of the low end b* or ZBT cymbals, but they stack up very poorly against the Custom A's or even the Formula 2002's.
Wuhan Chinese cymbals are my favorite of that variety. They have that character that the more expensive companies haven't been able to get (cause I think they are trying too hard).
The one very good thing about these "Dream" cymbals is that they are very inexpensive, and they sound................. okay (but avoid the ride cymbal which sounds like ass.

[toobalicious]

Originally Posted by Rimshot

I always knew them as Wuhan and they seem to have changed their name. The crashes are okay on a strong hit, but sound rather "tinny" and cheap when struck lightly. The splashes are just okay and the rides are absolutely horrid. They have a better character for traditional jazz and blues with the crashes, splash and hats than some of the low end b* or ZBT cymbals, but they stack up very poorly against the Custom A's or even the Formula 2002's.
Wuhan Chinese cymbals are my favorite of that variety. They have that character that the more expensive companies haven't been able to get (cause I think they are trying too hard).
The one very good thing about these "Dream" cymbals is that they are very inexpensive, and they sound................. okay (but avoid the ride cymbal which sounds like ass.

well, opinions are subjective and all, but yours seems a little misguided. the dream cymbals are hand cast and hammered from B20 bronze, unlike the cheap stamped wuhan crashes and splashes you are probably thinking about. the dreams are pretty highly regarded, especially with jazz and blues drummers. also, they are inexpensive as this type of product goes, but i wouldnt lump them with "cheap" cymbals by any stretch. and frankly, i think the large bliss rides sound very good.

soundclips here:
http://frontrangebronze.com/Dream.html
click the "purchase" link for soundfiles.

BTW, no disrespect intended.
a

[isfahani]

Um, yeah. What he said.

Actually, it's understood that in the past year or so the quality has upgraded quite a bit from what rimshot may have experienced, if indeed these were Dream Cymbals in the first place... But it doesn't sound like it to me!

The Bliss line is widely considered the 'best sounding line' they have currently, those rides are pretty damn good & they have some nice hi hats, too.

http://www.frontrangebronze.com/articles/Review.html

[Rimshot]

Originally Posted by toobalicious

well, opinions are subjective and all, but yours seems a little misguided. the dream cymbals are hand cast and hammered from B20 bronze, unlike the cheap stamped wuhan crashes and splashes you are probably thinking about. the dreams are pretty highly regarded, especially with jazz and blues drummers. also, they are inexpensive as this type of product goes, but i wouldnt lump them with "cheap" cymbals by any stretch. and frankly, i think the large bliss rides sound very good.

soundclips here:
http://frontrangebronze.com/Dream.html
click the "purchase" link for soundfiles.

BTW, no disrespect intended.
a

No disrespect taken, but I did try a couple of the Bliss series at my local retailer and they are good, but I really did not like the sound of the ride at all. It had the undertone of one of the Wuhan Chinese crash cymbals rather than the classic Zildjian rides that I own which are bright and sizzle at any touch. I checked out the prices and they are very pricey aren't they? So I was wrong there. They cost roughly what current Guitar Center prices on Custom A's are.
By the way I've looked at them closely and they don't appear to be cast cymbals but hammer forged from sheet the same way that Paiste makes theirs. Have you actually seen the cast blanks before they are made? Because the bells seem uniform as if they are from hammered sheet.

[MidiPunk]

Forget the name stamped on it until you know which sound you like. Go to a local shop, tap on some cymbals & find what you're after. If they don't play ball pricewise, get on ebay & find the one(s) you like used. Keep in mind the nature of the beast, two of the same cymbal won't always sound the same. Sometimes you gotta throw down the $300 for The One.

[random.hero]

holy crap the dream cymbals sound wonderful. i'd still wanna try them in person before purchase though, thats my suggestion. you wanna meet your wife before you get married, right? so try out the cymbals before purchase

thats my take on it i guess :S

[toobalicious]

By the way I've looked at them closely and they don't appear to be cast cymbals but hammer forged from sheet the same way that Paiste makes theirs. Have you actually seen the cast blanks before they are made?

no, i havent, nor am i a metallurgist. i just find it (metallurgy) interesting, and of cymbals in particular. i have, however, read a great deal on chinese cymbal and gong making. i have also read the following line, and presume to take it at face value:

Dream cymbals are produced in the Wuhan factory in China using the same techniques that Chinese cymbal makers have used for over 1900 years.

a