Singing and Playing at same time.. tips??

[Moonis 29]

I've been playing guitar for 3 years, learned on my own. But that's the thing, I've only played guitar... so singing! Well... I can sing, and I have lyrics written, it's PLAYING and SINGING at the same time is what I'm having trouble with! I'm always being told by family and friends how much they love hearing me play my acoustic because of the creativity and techniques they're not used to hearing from professional artists. So I definatly have confidence in my playing skills!

I'm a big Dave Matthews fan, and I listen to alot of John Mayer, Jack Johnson, and Granian... so hopefully that gives you some kind of idea what kind of music I play!

Any tips on learning how to play my guitar AND sing at the same time? Like which I should write first, or try doing first, etc..??

And thank you in advanced for all the tips and tricks!! =)

[dementedchord]

for me the instrumental side is first and has to be up to the second nature type test....

[mikeh]

Normally, if you are simply strumming chords - it should not be too difficult to sing and play at the same time.

If you are trying to play complicated guitar parts and sing at the same time - that can be difficult for even the best players.

Most players (and most song arrangements) allow for a more sparce (ie: simple) guitar part during the vocal parts and then play riffs/accents in between vocal line or vocal phrases.

The artists you mention do it all the time.

[mindwave_21]

I think I started about the same way as you. Pretty good at guitar, liked complexity in the rhythm parts.

I think you should do a dual approach. Find a song to cover and practice that's relatively easy with constant 1/8 note or 1/4 note rhythm, or simplify an existing song. This should help with playing both at the same time because you won't have to worry so much about the guitar and can concentrate on singing.

Next, I would pick a song with a complicated rhythm and just go at it with reckless abandon. It may not sound pretty the first few times, but eventually you should be seeing progress. Doing something out just of your reach may make other things seem easy in comparison.

I learned to play and sing on Jack Johnson's "Flake". If you break it down, your strumming hand is always moving and your fretting hand controls the chording and percussive sounds. It comes down to practice and muscle memory, so any practice would benefit you. I personally find myself paying little attention to the guitar part once I've nailed it as the above poster mentioned.

[IloveJesus]

Yeah, singing and playing can be tough.

I'm always amazed at the players who are good at both. Of course, strumming isn't that difficult while singing, but melody sure is.

Paul McCartney and Geddy Lee are quite good at playing melodic bass lines while singing. Very impressive.

David Lee Roth was really good at singing and playing........with himself.

[Moonis 29]

Originally Posted by mikeh

Normally, if you are simply strumming chords - it should not be too difficult to sing and play at the same time.

If you are trying to play complicated guitar parts and sing at the same time - that can be difficult for even the best players.

Most players (and most song arrangements) allow for a more sparce (ie: simple) guitar part during the vocal parts and then play riffs/accents in between vocal line or vocal phrases.

The artists you mention do it all the time.

Believe it or not I can play the beginning of "So Much To Say" by Dave Matthews along with the first verse... but as I get more into it, I tend to forget to move my mouth towards the mic again, haha.

I've got a bunch of lyrics written for some of my songs, and so far from what I've read it's starting to make a little sense of what i should do! I appreciate the help from everybody! thanks alot guys!

Any more tips, feel free to post!! I could always use more help and ideas!!

[up-fiddler]

Originally Posted by mikeh

Most players (and most song arrangements) allow for a more sparce (ie: simple) guitar part during the vocal parts and then play riffs/accents in between vocal line or vocal phrases.

Excellent point on two fronts. As stated it makes the singing and playing a bit easier. The other more important (I think.) feature is that you don't have a complex guitar part competing with the vox in a song. This is especially true if they are both using approximately the same frequency space on the speakers/monitors/earphones.

(You must spread......etc.)

[IloveJesus]

You don't have to use a standup mike. Use a headset.

Sure, it looks lame, but if it's good enough for Tony Robbins, it's good enough for you.

[ido1957]

Originally Posted by mikeh

Normally, if you are simply strumming chords - it should not be too difficult to sing and play at the same time.

If you are trying to play complicated guitar parts and sing at the same time - that can be difficult for even the best players.

Most players (and most song arrangements) allow for a more sparce (ie: simple) guitar part during the vocal parts and then play riffs/accents in between vocal line or vocal phrases.

The artists you mention do it all the time.

Good post - pretty much my feelings also.

I write songs that I can sing and play at the same time. They have strumming throughout the singing parts and a few "licks" during the non-singing parts.

If I'm multitracking I will add a second guitar for subtle leads/additional rhythm.

_______________
My Songs are here

[songright]

Originally Posted by IloveJesus

You don't have to use a standup mike. Use a headset.

Sure, it looks lame, but if it's good enough for Tony Robbins, it's good enough for you.

Hahahahaha! I use harmonica headgear...THAT would be a sight...although, it would make playing the harmonica that much easier! hmmm

This is all excellent advice. It can totally be done. Singing and playing at the same time have everything to do with rhythm. Moonis 29, if you can play even part of the first verse of that DMB song, then you are well on your way. The lyrical phrasing is so inconsistent with the main groove of that song. I learned it years ago, and it REALLY helped me to play more complex parts while singing by finding the rhythmic relationship between the words, and the guitar part. Great thread!

[Moonis 29]

Thanks songright! Which do you guys usually do first when writing a new song.. lyrics or guitar? Or which would you guys prefer assuming the guitar parts are a little mix between complex and simple?


I've started writing two new songs where I've made the verses I sing a little easier to play on the guitar so I can get the singing part down, then I'll focus on playing the harder parts (of my guitar) inbetween verses and chorus'.

Definatly some helpful tips from everybody, so thanks alot!

[Moonis 29]

i think my biggest problem is accidently focusing more on making sure what i play on my guitar sounds right, rather than making sure i'm singing the lyrics to the song the way the song is supposed to be sang. sometimes i'll catch myself accidently matching the note im playing on my guitar, instead of the note i gave each word in the song, you know?

[mikeh]

Regarding writing - I normally come up with either a chord progression or a riff (I'm always riffing on a guitar or piano). I then start to scat sing (not many lyrics - mostly gibberish) to develop a melody line over the progression/riff.

During this process two things normally happen: 1) The harmony structure (chord progression) changes and developes to accomodate the melody line and 2) Certain words/lyrical phrases start to develop (often the main melodic or lyrical "hook" - which often may become the song title).

Sometimes - the whole song or 80-90% comes together at that first sitting. Most times maybe 25-50% of the song comes together and then I work on re-writes for the next week or two. Often during that re-write process I'm also developing the song production concepts (additional riffs, musical hooks, etc.)

I try to make sure any song I write can stand on it's own with just vocals & guitar or vocals & piano. If the song can't cut it in that format - it probably isn't all that good to start with.

[azraelswings]

Originally Posted by Moonis 29

I've been playing guitar for 3 years, learned on my own. But that's the thing, I've only played guitar... so singing! Well... I can sing, and I have lyrics written, it's PLAYING and SINGING at the same time is what I'm having trouble with! I'm always being told by family and friends how much they love hearing me play my acoustic because of the creativity and techniques they're not used to hearing from professional artists. So I definatly have confidence in my playing skills!

I'm a big Dave Matthews fan, and I listen to alot of John Mayer, Jack Johnson, and Granian... so hopefully that gives you some kind of idea what kind of music I play!

Any tips on learning how to play my guitar AND sing at the same time? Like which I should write first, or try doing first, etc..??

And thank you in advanced for all the tips and tricks!! =)

Regarding playing & singing:

1. Practicing both parts alone helps a great deal. Particularly when you're first learning to put the two together. As time goes on, your learning curve flattens out, and you learn new songs with less effort. Also, try playing the guitar part along with the song, while paying as close attention to the singing in the recording as possible.

2. Normally, I would suggest that you start by limiting the rhythm part of an easy song to whole and half notes and singing over it. But, since you're singing & playing DMB, I think you're likely past the point at which this would be helpful.

Regarding writing, I carry a notebook around and write lyrics constantly. My original approach was generally to fiddle to riffs until they developed into something, scan through my collections of tidbit lyrics, and assemble a song from there. Currently, I record riffs as I come up them. I realized that if I collect lyrics as they come up, it only made sense to do the same with riffs. The other approach made me feel forced to write music around lyrics. So really, I like to write the two separately and then find bits that fit each other, edit and expand each of them as they come together.

Also, I'll often sketch out a melody while just mute scratching a rough rhythm on guitar. This gives me a feel for the tempo of the song, and thus the riffs I can smush into it.

[chazba]

Try playing scales and arpeggios on the guitar and singing along . After a few sessions of that try singing harmony with the guitar. It will be easier that you thought, and a few minutes of that will take you as long ways toward your goal.


chazba

[Moonis 29]

..........

[Moonis 29]

Originally Posted by mikeh

Regarding writing - I normally come up with either a chord progression or a riff (I'm always riffing on a guitar or piano). I then start to scat sing (not many lyrics - mostly gibberish) to develop a melody line over the progression/riff.

During this process two things normally happen: 1) The harmony structure (chord progression) changes and developes to accomodate the melody line and 2) Certain words/lyrical phrases start to develop (often the main melodic or lyrical "hook" - which often may become the song title).

Yea, this advice is probably the best I've heard yet! I try to do this alot, where I'll just mubble while I'm playing my guitar, and when I get used to WHEN I mumble and how much I do, it makes it a little easier to start turning those mumbles into words! I've noticed Dave Matthews doing this on his Making of: Stand Up DVD during some of his sessions, and I thought it was a pretty creative way to come up with lyrics to new songs!

Thanks alot for the help!!

[Zarathustra]

Just as a side note, I'd just some basic singing lessons, just for the sake of your voice (and possibly your audience). You can hurt it with improper technique, just like you could hurt you guitar by banging it into a wall every time you played a chord.

I think you should write poems before songs, but hey, whatever feels right.

[songright]

Moonis, I usually try to get the groove down. Make it feel natural through repetition. Sometimes words or phrases come to me, and I build off of those. I also "force" the lyrics into place on occasion.

[bilco]

Get out and play some open mics and maybe book a 1-2 hour gig or two. There is nothing like doing something live to reinforce what works and what doesn't work.

At some point the guitar part becomes kind of an auto pilot kind of thing and you can concentrate on getting the emotion of the song across with your voice.

bilco

[Scoot]

[QUOTE=mikeh;2854871]Regarding writing - I normally come up with either a chord progression or a riff (I'm always riffing on a guitar or piano). I then start to scat sing (not many lyrics - mostly gibberish) to develop a melody line over the progression/riff.


This is the advice I would give because it's how I do it also. You really gotta "feel" what you are doing then your guitar and your voice will work it out by themselves......also practice practice practice

[chazvic]

I find that one of the best techniques for encountering other similar kinds of problems of rhythm (because, I suspect the question is largely one of timing.) is to loop a section, even incredibly small, even if it means breaking up a phrase. To do that you have to know what both your hands are doing at a given moment. it's slow at first but the rewards in terms of developing sense of structure are great.

[George Parler]

There is no other way to get comfortable with playing and singing than learning your instrument. Usually when you've played a song enough times to be sick of it, you're just about there.




<><
George

[AudioClueless]

This seems to be an area where a lot of people struggle. Practice Practice Practice is the best way to improve. A tip I try when I'm having difficulties singing and playing at the same time with a new song is, try playing it and just humming it for awhile. Once you get that down move on.

[Whale Bone]

Originally Posted by azraelswings

Regarding playing & singing:

1. Practicing both parts alone helps a great deal. Particularly when you're first learning to put the two together.

When I'm learning to sing and play a song, this is where I start. Get each part in your muscle memory, so to speak.

Then when combining the parts, I look for moments where they line up naturally, either unison or in some simple rhythmic way.

Then I work out how to get from each of these points to the next, which usually means putting my bass playing on auto-pilot for moments while I focus on the singing. I'll also drill the tough parts slowly to really figure out how they line up against each other.

I'll play/sing it over and over until eventually it clicks, and I'm not on auto-pilot, and I can start having fun with it.