Overheads -10 db setting

[Kapo_Polenton]

Guys, quick question, do you record your overheads with the -10 db engaged? Are you rolling off the highs or wanting to keep them? Also, for those of you mic'ing with 6 or more mics, where do you place your overheads? In front of the kit, on each side facing each other, or behind facing in? I have mine in front currently but I find they really don't pick up the treble frequencies well on the kit.. its more of a bassy middy feel.

[Seafroggys]

I record with -5 on, but I might switch to -10 on because I often get very hot with my overheads (sometimes creeping within -1 db). I use RODE NT2-A mics.

[RAMI]

I don't roll off. I simply turn them down if need be.

[Seafroggys]

The -5 and -10 protect the diaphram, however, which just simply "turning down" does not, because the mic is still getting the same signal.

[ausrock]

Huh?

The diaphram is before any circuitry so would you care to explain how a -5 or -10 cut "protects" it?

[RAMI]

Originally Posted by ausrock

Huh?

The diaphram is before any circuitry so would you care to explain how a -5 or -10 cut "protects" it?

Exactly. It doesn't. It attenuates the output, not the input. It's made to protect the pre-amp, not the mic. It's got nothing to do with the diaphram.

[Kapo_Polenton]

Where do you guys place your overheads to minimize the crashes but get the right feel for the toms and overall kit?

[toobalicious]

Originally Posted by Kapo_Polenton

Where do you guys place your overheads to minimize the crashes but get the right feel for the toms and overall kit?

just not enough info.

so many factors and choices here: how big is the kit? how many cymbals? kit spaced closely or spread out? player have a light touch or does he wish he were tommy lee? what is your room like? dead? live? large? small? tall ceilings? can you barely stand without hitting your head? what mics?

i find drums the hardest thing to get "right" in a lousy room, and that tubby sort of "bassy middy feel" to be prevalent in a small-ish, live-ish room that is so typical of a home studio, as so much of the sound is comb-filtered by the room. i have about 1300 square foot basement room whose original construction was concrete and cinder-blocks, and with standard ceiling. far from ideal, and requiring copious damping. low frequency buildup, especially, is a recurring problem. i love big, open and "flat" rooms, but this room will never give me that. its saving grace (at least in my 'hood) is that it is mostly underground and in a pretty quiet area away from traffic. earth is a good attenuator.
a

[Rimshot]

I use a coincidental stereo pair of Oktava mk-011 with the 10db pad capsules situated at almost my standing height and over the center of my kit aiming down towards the far end of my snare and the close end of my small toms. This situates the mics at least 2 feet over my highest cymbal.
I don't hit my cymbals too hard and the placement of those two mics as a coincidental pair allows me to get a good over all picture of my kit. I find that I only need a small dynamic on the skin side of my snare and a good kick mic and I'm good to go.

[Elton Bear]

Originally Posted by Rimshot

I find that I only need a small dynamic on the skin side of my snare and a good kick mic and I'm good to go.

Interesting you say this - I tried that at college and it sounded great, then I did it on my kit at home and I'm having real trouble mixing it in.
Different kits, different room, all a factor I guess.

[Kapo_Polenton]

Smaller 5 peice kit : 3 toms, snare, kick
Two large crashes 18, 19, ride, splash, hats
small spare bedroom with window, ceiling maybe at 8 feet (the standard in american/canadian homes)
sm57's, 52 on the kick
two budget behringer overheads.

Given the limitations of a small room, i am thinking perhaps that the solution is any extra money goes into drumagog lol! You hit the nail on the head when you mentioned "tubby".

[Ironklad Audio]

i almost always roll off some the low end in the OH's....typically to 75-80hz, depending on what setting the particular mic has. if you get up into the 150 area, you start losing the low-end from the toms, which is a no-no for me.

and sometimes i'll use a pad - sometimes not...depends on how loud the drummer is, and what kind of preamp is being used - some preamps sound great when pushed a little harder, in which case you'll want to pad on the way in...others sound better at lower gain, and thus require no padding

[dgatwood]

Originally Posted by RAMI

Exactly. It doesn't. It attenuates the output, not the input. It's made to protect the pre-amp, not the mic. It's got nothing to do with the diaphram.

Well, I'd say its main purpose is to prevent distortion from overloading the input of the FET amplifier inside the mic itself. Sure, you can use it to prevent distortion at the preamp, but that's not a reason to have the pad within the mic. If preventing distortion at the preamp were the main purpose, everyone would just buy a handful of external inline attenuators and nobody would bother including pads on the mics themselves. I've never used a preamp that needed padding to avoid distorting, though I suppose if you don't have a trim pot on the actual input to the preamp, you might need one....

[RAMI]

Originally Posted by dgatwood

Well, I'd say its main purpose is to prevent distortion from overloading the input of the FET amplifier inside the mic itself. Sure, you can use it to prevent distortion at the preamp, but that's not a reason to have the pad within the mic. If preventing distortion at the preamp were the main purpose, everyone would just buy a handful of external inline attenuators and nobody would bother including pads on the mics themselves. I've never used a preamp that needed padding to avoid distorting, though I suppose if you don't have a trim pot on the actual input to the preamp, you might need one....

My point is that it doesn't have anything to do with protecting the diaphram of the mic.

I've personally never had to use the pad for the mic or the pre-amp.

[Ironklad Audio]

never used a preamp that needed padding to avoid distorting

API!

even with the gain at 0, they'll clip if not padded for drums

[ausrock]

Originally Posted by dgatwood

Well, I'd say its main purpose is to prevent distortion from overloading the input of the FET amplifier inside the mic itself.

Which is a preamp, so RAMI's comment was basically correct (even if he did actually mean the main pre ).

I notice that Seafroggy hasn't replied to the correction of his statement "The -5 and -10 protect the diaphram"

[Bulls Hit]

Originally Posted by Kapo_Polenton

Where do you guys place your overheads to minimize the crashes but get the right feel for the toms and overall kit?

It depends if you need your overheads to pick up your toms as well.
If you're micing your toms it's a lot easier because then the overhead's job is really just hats, cymbals, and room. If you're room is no good, then you need to hi pass the overheads to exclude it. If you're not getting enough cymbals, move the overheads above the kit. If your cymbals are too loud, you can move the OHs out to the front of the kit and position them the same height as the cymbals, rather than above them.
If you're not picking up the highs properly, then this is probably down to your mics. I use 2 different condensors for OHs - a cheapo Cascade and a nice AKG, both above the kit aimed at the snare. The AKG picks up so more more high freq stuff than the Cascade, it's unbelievable. You should maybe look to replace at least one of your berrys if you want the crisp upper detail. Even 1 good condensor makes a lot of difference.
And there's nothing wrong with Drumagog. It's great for augmenting those things that need it. In my case, my kick is not the greatest, and I use dumagog to beef it up.
The drums in this thread http://www.homerecording.com/bbs/sho...d.php?t=256273 were recorded in a small 12' x 7' room, 4 piece kit, 6 mics and a drumagog sample on the kick