zany drummer

[emomusician]

hey, dilemma..


i'm the frontman for a southernrock/punk/hardcore band.
our drummer plays a black and red ddrum set. he wants something new.
take into account he is the rebellious (do the opposite of what you should do) guy of the band.
he first wanted a really nice gretsch set.. but some dunder head talked him out of it.. then he wanted a sonor kit, like an old one he used to have.... then some other dunder head talked him into pearl.. which is fine.. but... here's the thing.

He's now dead set on getting this low end pearl set.. for only one reason..

double bass.

#1. we don't play music that warrants having something like that
#2. on the same token it looks stupid for the music we play
#3. he's not good enough to have one

now, we are getting into arguments.. because all I have asked is that he not take the 2nd drum to shows. Simply because in the "scene" we are in.. people will poke fun at us for having such a big drum set for such simple music. it just looks ridiculous..

is that too much to ask?

[celticska]

what a coinkydink! I'm the front man from a ska/celtic/electronica band!!!

sounds to me like you need a new drummer if you're serious about being a working band... there's a business aspect to being in a band, and the business requires you maintain your credibility with your audience.

[drumzealot]

Sorry man but your priorities reflect a concern of your band’s image over the music itself. Who gives a fvck about a-holes that poke fun at your band because of the drum set? Anyone who does that doesn’t know shit about music. There are plenty of drummers using 2 BDs in that genre. So they say something because your drummer breaks the norm? Ignoring the norm is an important factor in punk/hardcore and good art in general. Very little has been accomplished by people who are overly concerned about norms and other people’s ill-informed opinions. Would punk rock even exist if people cared about what other's thought?

Now, if the drummer doesn’t sound good, that is a more legit issue in my book. If he refuses to play what the music calls for then that person needs to learn to set aside his pride and desire to show off or whatever and make decisions based on what the music needs. If he can’t do that then find a new drummer.

[drossfile]

what is it that he's unhappy about with his current set? if he doesn't think the sound is good enough, he's certainly not going to get a better sound out of any low-end kit.

you should try to get him to go audition some stuff until he finds the sound he likes, and if he can buy a high-end 5-pc for what he'd spend on the giant low-end kit that still sounds horrible, maybe that would convince him?

and why not just buy a double kick pedal??? no worries about accurately matching the tuning and feel, which is no small feat on two kick drums, ESPECIALLY cheap ones! also, lugging around a drum set to gigs is a royal pain to begin with, and he wants to lug 2 kicks???

perhaps you should start searching for a dunder head who will talk him out of this one too, since he puts so much faith in them for his decision making.

[drumzealot]

Originally Posted by drossfile

which is no small feat on two kick drums

Don't you men small feet?!?!?!?
Badump-chink!

[emomusician]

Glad you guys don't see this as such a terrible request. I posted this on another forum and got flamed to death.

there are alot of angles this could go..

the practicality of it..
the costs of buying, replacing heads, getting cymbals, and having to tweak it to make it sound decent vs. buying a nice single bass kit that doesn't need anything but cymbals.
venues don't have room, and how are you gonna get it there, and you WILL get tired of setting all that junk up.

I don't think I need to even take it further than that to convince him.

most of the people I know who have double kits.. have a guy who sets them up for them..and they play for more than 150-200 people at a show.

[PhilGood]

I had to give up the idea of using 2 kicks and I fought it for as long as I could. My main feeling was that it gave a sense of symmetry to the kit. It gave it a nice center point to attack the drums from.

But in reality its quite impractical in todays scene, especially with the equipment that's available. There are double kick pedal engineered to the heights that have the same speed and balance as two separate pedals on two separate drums. Not to mention you don't have to waste precious time getting the two kicks to the same pitch all around. And then there's the cou de gras! You don't have to lug that 2nd drum around...the HEAVY one.

While I still love the look of a double bass kit, it just isn't practical and, dare I say "appropriate" for certain images. Not to mention if you can't play double bass, why have one?

[L mandrake]

Originally Posted by drumzealot

Don't you men small feet?!?!?!?
Badump-chink!

HAHAHA Nice one

[L mandrake]

Originally Posted by emomusician

hey, dilemma..


i'm the frontman for a southernrock/punk/hardcore band.
our drummer plays a black and red ddrum set. he wants something new.
take into account he is the rebellious (do the opposite of what you should do) guy of the band.
he first wanted a really nice gretsch set.. but some dunder head talked him out of it.. then he wanted a sonor kit, like an old one he used to have.... then some other dunder head talked him into pearl.. which is fine.. but... here's the thing.

He's now dead set on getting this low end pearl set.. for only one reason..

double bass.

#1. we don't play music that warrants having something like that
#2. on the same token it looks stupid for the music we play
#3. he's not good enough to have one

now, we are getting into arguments.. because all I have asked is that he not take the 2nd drum to shows. Simply because in the "scene" we are in.. people will poke fun at us for having such a big drum set for such simple music. it just looks ridiculous..

is that too much to ask?

One of the bands I play in is a Beatles band and up until fairly recently our drummer would bring his kit to even the smallest of gigs with his full wrap around rack enclosure thing (I know there must be a name for it} I always thought it was out of context and inappropriate, but the band is good, hes a great drummer and showman we always get the place hopping so it never really became too great an issue. If the music is good and the audience gets into it, dont stress this one. Just means theres less room for you on stage. Most audiences wouldnt know the diff anyway and would probably find it novel.But if your guitarist decides he wants the sound of a triple marshall stack then post another one here and we will sort him out

[GWAR129]

[/QUOTE] Simply because in the "scene" we are in.. people will poke fun at us for having such a big drum set for such simple music. it just looks ridiculous..

is that too much to ask?[/QUOTE]

You are the biggest faggot for having that reasoning. You should die for that. You only care about your image? i know your music sucks because you like emo shit. Emo is in your name. Fag. You're a faggot. I don't think you should be in any bands ever if you just care about the way the people will think about your stuff. Fuck you. You're wrong.

[L mandrake]

Simply because in the "scene" we are in.. people will poke fun at us for having such a big drum set for such simple music. it just looks ridiculous..

is that too much to ask?[/QUOTE]

You are the biggest faggot for having that reasoning. You should die for that. You only care about your image? i know your music sucks because you like emo shit. Emo is in your name. Fag. You're a faggot. I don't think you should be in any bands ever if you just care about the way the people will think about your stuff. Fuck you. You're wrong.[/QUOTE]

oooops...this might be the guys drummer!

[Schloo]

I guess if you are that worried about being made fun of, tell the drummer he has to tune it. That might enough to dissuade him.

[drumzealot]

Simply because in the "scene" we are in.. people will poke fun at us for having such a big drum set for such simple music. it just looks ridiculous..

is that too much to ask?[/QUOTE]

You are the biggest faggot for having that reasoning. You should die for that. You only care about your image? i know your music sucks because you like emo shit. Emo is in your name. Fag. You're a faggot. I don't think you should be in any bands ever if you just care about the way the people will think about your stuff. Fuck you. You're wrong.[/QUOTE]

I guess the firewall at Shortbus Elementary School does not filter out certain words.

[L mandrake]

........i know your music sucks because you like emo shit.

There is NOTHING I hate more than stepping in EMU SHIT !!!! So anyone that likes it MUST be a faggot!

[mikeyhasnobones]

yeah i was in a band with a guy who had one of those gibralter rack things and it was a total nightmare to lug around! ugh! i agree with drossfile, it's gonna be a total pain to carry around a second kick and a second pedal on a better kit might be just the compromise you're looking for.

[Kirk Markarian]

Originally Posted by emomusician

Glad you guys don't see this as such a terrible request. I posted this on another forum and got flamed to death.

there are alot of angles this could go..

the practicality of it..
the costs of buying, replacing heads, getting cymbals, and having to tweak it to make it sound decent vs. buying a nice single bass kit that doesn't need anything but cymbals.
venues don't have room, and how are you gonna get it there, and you WILL get tired of setting all that junk up.

I don't think I need to even take it further than that to convince him.

most of the people I know who have double kits.. have a guy who sets them up for them..and they play for more than 150-200 people at a show.

You didn't get flamed to death. You went to a drummer's forum and asked a question to a bunch of people who are drummers. Not only that, you asked for a group consensus.

First of all, if you're the leader of a band, you make the decisions. You don't need to ask for help. You came off like a girly-man on the drum forum. That's why you got the responses that you did.

You told us all that you wanted the drummer to get a kit that YOU wanted. Then you told us it's all about looks. No matter what band you play with, the very least of your concerns should be about looks. Like the overweight drummer for Korn. Who gives a care about how he looks. He's stompin'.

Your past triumphs mean nothing when you are starting fresh.

Then you even go so far as to insult the drummer, telling us he's not with it mentally. Seriously, you should be ashamed of yourself. Are you a man or a boy?

That's why you got the reaction you did. I'm sorry that your drummer bowed to your will.

[elly-d]

you all talk like your bands help with carrying your kit. i wish my band would do that.

[Supercreep]

Originally Posted by Kirk Markarian

First of all, if you're the leader of a band, you make the decisions. You don't need to ask for help..

My guess, from this response, is that you haven't been in many bands - and further, that you've never been the leader of an even moderately successful one.

With an attitude like that, the only band you're going to lead is the one-man variety.

[RAMI]

Haha...I love this place.

[Zaphod B]

As far as I'm concerned, if the drummer is a decent drummer he / she can use whatever kit he / she is willing to carry around, set up, break down, and position mics for.

If the guy wants to use a double-bass kit, so be it. He doesn't have to get a cheap kit to have two bass drums.

At some point he'll run into space limitations or maybe just get tired of hauling it all around. Maybe not though.

Is the drummer telling your guitarists what kind of rig they should be using?

[Kirk Markarian]

Originally Posted by Zaphod B

Is the drummer telling your guitarists what kind of rig they should be using?

That's my point. No. The drummer doesn't.

SUPERCREEP - you're making assumptions. You contributed nothing to this discussion. Maybe next time you can you can give it the good 'ol college try.

A real band leader chooses who plays in his band, what kind of instruments they play, their look, et. al. Take a look at major big-bands of the 50's. Those people were hand-picked. They wore uniforms/tuxedos. The band leader booked the gigs with his agent. Times have changed, though, and now they pick boys who look like girls. Tuxedos have been traded for mascara, and uniformity is the new punk.

The guitarist in question is in a start-up rock and roll band, worrying about image and telling the drummer what to buy. It's the principle. Highlighting your past experiences with bands that work in that fashion is not the point.

If a band chooses not to have a leader, then it is a split decision depending on who has the strongest personality.

The drummer could have bought that kit anyway, and split it into pieces. It's his kit, his money. Nobody tells another person what to do, unless that other person lets them.

And if somebody has to gather a census on what to do, they shouldn't be making decisions.

[Supercreep]

Kirk - Ok, let's take your post at face value.

You say:

Originally Posted by Kirk Markarian

A real band leader chooses who plays in his band, what kind of instruments they play, their look, et. al.

And then go on to elaborate:

Originally Posted by Kirk Markarian

The drummer could have bought that kit anyway, and split it into pieces. It's his kit, his money. Nobody tells another person what to do, unless that other person lets them..

Doesn't having mutually exclusive opinions make your brain hurt? If not, I think the Democrats are looking for a presidential nominee.


Look, it's not practical to be a band leader in the sense you mean unless you're cutting some serious checks.

A band leader, in my limited rock and roll experience, is the guy who personally pays for stuff other members take for granted, books the gigs and studio time, handles PR, drives the drummer home when he's too drunk, and stays after everyone else left to collect half of the money originally promised, designs and distributes the flyers, and making sure the guitarist's girlfreind realizes she's not actually a band member.

Ring a bell?

[Zaphod B]

emomusician -

Let's get back to basics here.

You should be concerned about having a decent drummer with a decent kit. Just finding a good drummer in a start-up band is difficult enough. If you have one, consider yourself lucky and STFU about the kit.

If anything, you should be encouraging the drummer to invest in quality hardware, not to use a specific configuration. Concentrate on your own improvement as a musician, encourage your bandmates to do the same, and don't put so much emphasis on what, for example, a double-bass kit may look like in your "scene."

Let your music do the talking, if it can.

[Kirk Markarian]

Originally Posted by Supercreep

Kirk - Ok, let's take your post at face value.

You say:



And then go on to elaborate:

Doesn't having mutually exclusive opinions make your brain hurt? If not, I think the Democrats are looking for a presidential nominee.


Look, it's not practical to be a band leader in the sense you mean unless you're cutting some serious checks.

A band leader, in my limited rock and roll experience, is the guy who personally pays for stuff other members take for granted, books the gigs and studio time, handles PR, drives the drummer home when he's too drunk, and stays after everyone else left to collect half of the money originally promised, designs and distributes the flyers, and making sure the guitarist's girlfreind realizes she's not actually a band member.

Ring a bell?

Pardon me, I forgot to mention that in the other forum where we discussed this, we came to at least one conclusion that the drummer could buy the kit he wanted (a double-bass Pearl Export) and then just split the drums up. It was a compromise. The drummer was looking at a few kits. As a community, we drummers agreed that emomusician was clearly in the wrong to tell somebody what kind of gear he could get. He did not like the answers we gave him, and he continued to press his point.

If a double-bass drum kit was a problem on stage, a simple request to the drummer to leave one bass drum at home would have been fine. But, the request was for the drummer to get what the guitarist wanted him to get. So, if emomusician was to stand his ground as a band leader, he really had only two choices - compromise or find a new drummer.

But in the points he was pressing - he started telling us that his drummer was kinda crazy, wanted to tape his drums up like Van Halen, and play a double-kick set. So, not only did it become about the kit that emomusician wanted the drummer to have, it also became about image.

So, compromise or move on and find a new drummer. Telling a drummer to get certain gear is the "be a real band leader" part. Find a new drummer that will kow-tow to your whims, or be "real" and make a compromise. This was not a mutually-exclusive point.

I should have been more specific, my apologies, but I'm going to stand my ground on this.

Asking people to help emomusician make a decision about a drummer and his gear, whom emomusician has spoken ill of on a public forum is most definitely an outrage. Did the drummer ask the guitarist to purchase a specific piece of gear for the image of the band? As far as we know, no he did not.

It's shabby to ask people to work out your problem for you. He simply should have asked his drummer to work with him. Not air his dirty laundry.

So if the drummer was to stand his ground, he would have been fired. A band leader should be prepared for this type of situation. If it has to be 'just so', then there really is very little to discuss.

In every band I've been in, there was a leader, but it was very democratic. I am a drummer, and I won't be pushed around. Especially if my knowledge of gear and songwriting is greater than the supposed leader (which it always was, because I am not only a drummer, but a composer and synthesist). I love effects, synthesizers, and boutique amps.

If there is a sound I want a guitarist to have, I don't say "Hey dude, buy this amp, because I want you to, and it'll help the look of our band". I usually end up getting that piece of equipment for myself, and saying to the guitarist/bassist/singer "Hey, check out this new piece of gear I got! I wanna hear how you sound through it". It's not nearly as intrusive as "You can't have a double-bass kit, because it doesn't fit our image or the stage" (which is BS, we have small stages here in the city, and with creative layout, anybody can fit anything on the stage).

So if I was to influence a person buying a drum set, I would sit the drummer down behind several kits, and listen to him play them. He'd say "I like this one", and I'd probably agree. Then he'd say something like "But, I can get these Pearl Exports for less, and it's a double bass, rad!". I'd say "you don't know how they sound - are you really sure?".

Now he has a seed of doubt planted. I don't have to say "don't buy this gear". It's an unknown variable - the Pearl Exports. The PDP's or Gretsch kits sound awesome, they're right there.

I don't have to come to a forum and ask people to solve a problem.

Let's say he did purchase the Exports, against my wishes. As band leader, I'd say, "well, cool, you got that kit! But, you know what, we don't really need a double-bass - we've got to worry about fitting our gear up on that stage - do you need to have two basses?" He'd probably agree that two basses is too much. And if he didn't agree, I'd ask the band around me for their opinions, not a forum. That should be adequate for getting the job done.

[timthetortoise]

It seems like this emomusician dude just wants to let everyone on the forum know that he's in a band.
Alright man! We get it! Good job!