Metal Mixing Standarts

[Vagodeoz]

I recently saw someone in this forum talking about people who cuts everything between 80 Hz and 4 Khz on the kicks.
Every style has it's own mixing standarts, but I'm not too familiar with the ones from metal.
If a person doesn't like them that's a different matter. I personally don't base myself on standarts, but well... at least you have to know the rules before breaking them, and to decide if you break them or not.
So it would be good to star making a list of them, and of course discussing them.


Here are a couple of mixes I have been doing lately. As you can hear, I need some serious help with my mixing.

[rayc]

Ignore any STANDARD EQ settings for metal (or check you windows media player presets) or anything else. Record what sounds right & then adjust/mix to your ears then consider what the client wants. If you go around presetting for genre you're just going with, well, presets.

[pipelineaudio]

Back in the day it was "make it HURT"

play some quiet to move people in to the speaker, then BLAMMO DEATH AND CARNAGE, then let them breath for a seond then BANG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But for now? Take all the bass out of everything, subsynth the guitars, make everything mono, distort the whole mix to white noise. Done

[NL5]

Originally Posted by pipelineaudio

But for now? Take all the bass out of everything, subsynth the guitars, make everything mono, distort the whole mix to white noise. Done

I feel your pain.........

[Vagodeoz]

Well I have actually tried removing bass from everything
Just a little bit. I set a high cut with the waves eq, and I start moving higher the frequency until it removes a little bit of the fundamental, then I keep it in that frequency and make it a low cut.
It has made my mixes a lot clearer.
How about wall of guitars? I have hears some people doubling the guitars in L-R and adding 2Khz and reducing 4 Khz for one, and doing the opposite to the other one.
Drums?
I also compress the hell out of everything. Mandatory for metal

rayc: I am the client And I listen to a shitload of metal, and most of the times I'm stuck, is becouse I know where I'm trying to go sonicly, but I don't know how to do it.

[pipelineaudio]

Originally Posted by Vagodeoz

I also compress the hell out of everything. Mandatory for metal

That's probably about where it starts to thin out

[IronFlippy]

Sweep a parametric EQ on stuff. Give stuff that you like a boost and stuff you don't like a cut. Study compression, make sure you know what it's doing. It can be very tricky. Outside of that, just practice. Reference a recording that you like and try to match the sound on it. Other than an instructor, this is the best thing you can do. There aren't any settings that work all the time for a certain sound. On different sources, you can do radically different things to achieve a similar sound. It takes time, but you will get better if you keep at it.

[Phuturistic]

By the way, what is a standart?

[Farview]

Your EQ setting will always represent the difference between the sound you have and the sound you want.

First, you have to know the sound you want, then listen to the sound you recorded. What is the difference between the two? That will be your EQ setting.

Without knowing what you have recorded, there is no way to know what EQ settings you need.

[mrhotapples]

If it's not metal going in, you can't make it metal coming out.

If it IS metal going in, you should really just focus on whatever is most important. The kick is important, so are the guitars. Find a good balance between those two. Those need to be the most up front. After that, the vocals, snare, and bass. Whatever needs to be most upfront needs the most work dynamically to STAY there. That doesn't mean to compress the shit out of it. Parallel compression if your friend here in a dense mix to keep that click and the wall of guitars out there.

If you have a good bassist playing, cut the bass from the guitars. If it's just some guy they have playing that really doesn't know what he's doing, he'll screw up the power from the drums and make the guitars sound wimpy, so in taht event, lay it low, keep it very scooped and give the guitars the bass.

Vocals should just be compressed to hell through multiple compressors at varying speeds. Try getting a tape saturation plugin or some other distortion to lay under the vocal so it's barely noticable. It'll sound nice. Otherwise, as long as the vocal is performed well, it should be pretty easy.

Don't think in too narrow terms either. Some bands need their vocals really up front, some don't want the kick too up there. Some of them want you to distort the whole damn mix until it bleeds. It's all still dependent on what it sounds like going in more than anything. You need punch and clarity at first order or you can never really get it back.

[Vagodeoz]

Thanks guys. Actually I don't compress the hell out of all the tracks. It depends on the tracks.
As you said kick and guitars need to be on front.
I compress the kick, and then parallel compress it. Then I limit the kick track (just to reduce clips -2/-3 dB), I send all the drum tracks to a submaster and give it a little multiband compression, and also a little limiting to reduce peaks.
Distorted guitars are by themselves compressed to hell (becouse of distortion), but I also put a limiter for cutting some eventual clips.

Yes, there are many kind of sounds. I was looking for a distorted guitar, but understandable. Loud band, but leaving spaces for background orchestra.
I'm looking for the Rhapsody/Epica/Therion kind of sound.

Two things:
What you guys are talking about are just generic recomendations? (about compression and stuff) or someone actually heard my mixes and was reffering to particular elements from them?

Any suggestions for a VST/DXi (non protools) tape saturation plug-in?

[Farview]

Originally Posted by Vagodeoz

I compress the kick, and then parallel compress it. Then I limit the kick track (just to reduce clips -2/-3 dB), I send all the drum tracks to a submaster and give it a little multiband compression, and also a little limiting to reduce peaks.

I have never had to do that much to make a drum sound right. Either you are just over-doing it or there is something terribly wrong with your kick drum.

Originally Posted by Vagodeoz

Distorted guitars are by themselves compressed to hell (becouse of distortion), but I also put a limiter for cutting some eventual clips.

Why would the guitars be clipping? If they are distorted metal type guitar sounds, there really shouldn't be more than a few db of dynamics. If the record level is anywhere near clipping, you are recording way too hot.

[Farview]

I just listened. Your kicks have way too much low end and the whole thing is a little overcompressed. (On La Espanda) The other song doesn't have enough drums.

Take all the lows out of the keys to keep them from taking over the mix.

You just seem to have too much in the 1k to 5k range.

[Vagodeoz]

Thanks for the suggestions!
There is indeed something really wrong with my kick. It's a Juggs kick with very very old heads and miked with an SM58.... and Drumagog´d to get more low end.
The guitars really don't have much dymanics. By clip I meant peak. There are some 1 or 2 dBs peaks here and there. Just to cut them.
Usually I set all my limiters not to cut more than 3-4 dBs.

And there is indeed a lot happening between 1k and 5k. The distortion of the guitars, plus the kick, plus the snare... I think everything.
In which instruments should I remove those frequencies? Or should I do it to the whole mix?

[Farview]

Originally Posted by Vagodeoz

Thanks for the suggestions!
There is indeed something really wrong with my kick. It's a Juggs kick with very very old heads and miked with an SM58.... and Drumagog´d to get more low end.

You don't need more low end.

Originally Posted by Vagodeoz

The guitars really don't have much dymanics. By clip I meant peak. There are some 1 or 2 dBs peaks here and there. Just to cut them.
Usually I set all my limiters not to cut more than 3-4 dBs.

Don't do that. Let the guitars breath.

And there is indeed a lot happening between 1k and 5k. The distortion of the guitars, plus the kick, plus the snare... I think everything.
In which instruments should I remove those frequencies? Or should I do it to the whole mix?[/QUOTE]I was talking about the first song. What you need to do is emphasize a different frequency in each instrument so they fit together like a jigsaw puzzle.

Try taking some 2k out of the guitar and emphasize it in the vocal, stuff like that.

[Vaquero Verbal]

Standards sucks ... make your own sound ... its your music ...

Sure if you like a certain sound of a band its a great exercise (? my english int that well anymore) trying to imitate this sound, but don´t get used to a standard processing when you mix, cause every recording is different and needs a different treating.

Dirk

[ecktronic]

Originally Posted by Vagodeoz

Thanks for the suggestions!
There is indeed something really wrong with my kick. It's a Juggs kick with very very old heads and miked with an SM58.... and Drumagog´d to get more low end.
The guitars really don't have much dymanics. By clip I meant peak. There are some 1 or 2 dBs peaks here and there. Just to cut them.
Usually I set all my limiters not to cut more than 3-4 dBs.

And there is indeed a lot happening between 1k and 5k. The distortion of the guitars, plus the kick, plus the snare... I think everything.
In which instruments should I remove those frequencies? Or should I do it to the whole mix?

The kick does have a bit too much low end in Le espado. Try reducing the release (and/or hold) on the gate on the kick.

The rest of the mix is thin and bland which makes the kick sound out of place, so I wouldn't take much low from the kick but rather fill the rest of the mix.
Cut a load of the low mids around 200-300Hz out of your guitars then you will be able to make them louder without killing the mix.
Try to cut the low mids around 200-300Hz on most instruments expect vocals. This will clean up your mixes a lot but be care full because small tweaks in this frequency band can make for thin mixes or over scooped sounding mixes.

I like the sound of the short outro, sounds very nice to me.

Eck

[RAMI]

Originally Posted by Farview

Your EQ setting will always represent the difference between the sound you have and the sound you want.

I love that line. Simple but perfect.

[hoops]

To answer your question one of the biggest metal producer and enginere is a guy named Andy Sneap. He has been setting the standrad for recording and mixing metal for the last decade. He has recorded bands like 36 CRAZYFISTS, ACRIMONY, ARCH ENEMY, ARTILLERY, AS I LAY DYING, BENEDICTION, BIOMECHANICAL, BLAZE, CALIBAN, CATHEDRAL, CHIMAIRA, CONSUMED, CRADLE OF FILTH, DEARLY BEHEADED, DESPISED, DEVILDRIVER, DEW SCENTED, DISGUST, EARTH CRISIS, EARTHTONE 9, ENGLISH DOGS, ENTOMBED, EXODUS, FACE OF ANGER, FOZZY, HECATE ENTHRONED, INTO ETERNITY, IRON MONKEY, JOB FOR A COWBOY, KILL II THIS, KILLSWITCH ENGAGE, KREATOR, LIVING SACRIFICE, LOCK UP, MACHINE HEAD, MASTERPLAN, MEGADETH, MINDFEED, NAPALM DEATH, NEVERMORE, OBITUARY, OPETH, PISSING RAZORS, RISE TO ADDICTION, SABBAT, SICK SPEED, SKINLAB, SOULFLY, SPIRITUAL BEGGARS, SQUEELER, STAMPIN' GROUND, STUCK MOJO, TESTAMENT, THE MORE I SEE, THORN ELEVEN, TRIVIUM. If you look at the bands this man is invovled with you will see my point.

[hoops]

Now let me tell you some things I have heard about his recording style. When it comes to guitar he is a minimalist. He gets the best tone out of the guitar amp before he records. Most of the time it is one mic on the cab. Most of the time it is a SM 57. As for gain he usually dials back the gain and then doubles the tracks on each side. He also like to re-amp. Bass he usually records direct. Drums the kick, snare and toms are triggered. He usually mixes them in at 50-50. He also gates the drums. For overheads he uses one mic for every two cymbals. For vocals most of the time he uses a SM 7 or 57. He dosen't waste time with a good condensor unless they are singing and not yelling or growling.
EQ on guitars scoup at around 300 to 500Hz narrow Q. Low cut at around 100Hz. That is about it. Not huge on loads of EQ. For overheads, low cut at about 400 to 500Hz and a boost at 7kHz. Compresion on guitars is usually one band on the 80 to 150Hz range. I am sure there is load more of stuff but that is all I can remember at this time. I hope this helps gives an idea of what he does.

[Ironklad Audio]

FWIW, sneap usually squishes the low-mids on the guitars with a multiband comp. rather than EQ them out of the mix

[hoops]

Originally Posted by Ironklad Audio

FWIW, sneap usually squishes the low-mids on the guitars with a multiband comp. rather than EQ them out of the mix

Sorry, I might have been remembering the wrong setting from some where else. My numbers are off some. Here is a quote from Andy.

Q/ Andy how low do you let the guitars go?
A/ I'll usually filter from 60 hz down, what I do use alot on gtrs these days is the C4 Compressor with PT's with just the low mids compressing and compress that area between 120- 300, that really pulls the gtrs into shape and stops any low end jumping round, if you have your mac linked to internet and C4 comp, I'll gladly send you the preset.

[ecktronic]

Originally Posted by Ironklad Audio

FWIW, sneap usually squishes the low-mids on the guitars with a multiband comp. rather than EQ them out of the mix

Yeah a multi band on the low mids for guitars can work a treat. Been using that trick for a good while now.

I tend to use the Waves LM for the low mids on guitars. I tend to bring the EQ down and use the threshold and range to control the low mids so there is minimal mud
Eck

[Vagodeoz]

Here is a new mix I did.
This one is pretty much final (except for the guitar solo)
It's a lot less "bassy". I think maybe too much...
So check it out and tell me what you think. Do you think it improved over the last one?

A orillas del destino

[TerraMortim]

first off...what kind of metal? That can make a huge difference.