Acoustic or Electronic

[Highsteel]

I'm shopping around for electronic drums for my son to practice on in his bedroom and there's all kinds out there. The problem is when I get near to laying down a pile of cash I'm just having a hard time parting with real money for what I'm preceiving as fake drums.

We have a set of real drums out in our jam room but to warm it up every day for him takes too much time.

I've seen the damping pads and have been told by at least one sales guy that he plays his acoustic drums in his apartment at all hours using these round rubber pads.

Any input would be gladly received

Highsteel

[Elton Bear]

If you've already got acoustic drums, a set of practice pads for £20 will be much less expensive, the downside is that with electric drums you get lots of fancy sounds when you hit things!

For a decent electric kit you're looking at at least £600, I'd suggest getting the pads to be honest.

[Highsteel]

My dilemma is not pads or electric drums its whether to by another set of acoustic drums or electric drums for the boy.

I remember when I was 14 and bought my first electric guitar for $5.00. I opened it up and soldered and played around until I could plug it in to my dad's reel to reel tape machine !/4" mic input on the left channel and crank up the record dial and the output dial and got my first taste of amplification.

I liked it, but doing bads things to the reel to reel and speaker was a shame and I wish I knew better but needless to say my Dad was not enthralled when he couldn't play his Jesus Christ Superstar on it sometime later

Way to early.

Anyway the point is, I didn't get an amp and I played that electric unpluged in my room and I wasn't given lessons and by the death of the reel to reel, my boy won't wreck my gear and will have some of his own to wreck as young guys will do and right now thats drums and more specifically drums in his bedroom, in the house, to practice on in his own space and maybe better ones than the ones my buddy Ed left here for the jam space.

The boy has full access to the jam space and as I build a recording studio around our jam room I just want him growing up and playing with my gear but not killing it.

My plan as of now is to rent some electric drums for a couple of months for his room and decide on whether to buy them or another acoustic set that will go into the jam space when Ed takes his drums back (which may be never)

I appreciate your comment on the downside of rubber pads on acoustic over electric drums tho

hhhmmmm

Any other comments and/or suggestions on this thread?

[BentRabbit]

I have a couple of acoustic kits ands a small Roland TD 5 for practice...

I owned the TD5 several of years ago when I was getting back into playing and loved what it allowed me to do (pretty much what you want for your son). Thern it was sold when I upgraded, then went to acoustics etc. This past year I found one for cheap and picked it up... I'm glad I have one again.

TD 5 or TD 7 brains can be found for $100 - $150 on ebay, and the trigger pads can be found for $20 - $40 each... I would recommend mesh head pads, but they're going to be a bit more spendy... The TD7 / TD8/ TD 9 rubber pads have a pretty good feel and are pretty quiet in comparison to the TD 5 pads or the older Roland or Simmons pads.

Again, they're a nice practice accessory, and even a quick and dirty recording tool, so as long as he already has access to some acoustics, I say by all means, pick him up a little cheap electronic for his room.

Roland brains are the easiest to work with... The Alesis DM line can be frustrating for a beginner and the Yamaha's don't have the sound the Rolands give (IMHO)

Hope this helps!

[Highsteel]

BentRabbit

Thanx for the post. Thats exactly the kind of advice I was looking for.

The kit I'm planning on getting is about $700cdn - is that what you meant by cheap little electronic?

$45 per month to rent and then 60% of the rental back if I decide to buy.

Is buying used electronic drum gear over ebay a good idea?

Highsteel

[BentRabbit]

Originally Posted by Highsteel

BentRabbit

Thanx for the post. Thats exactly the kind of advice I was looking for.

The kit I'm planning on getting is about $700cdn - is that what you meant by cheap little electronic?

$45 per month to rent and then 60% of the rental back if I decide to buy.

Is buying used electronic drum gear over ebay a good idea?

Highsteel

Depending on what you're buying, I suppose $700 would be ballpark... I've seen the older used kits go for anywhere from $250 - $1000

And yes, since I live in a sleepy little Oregon Coast town, I do a good portion of my shopping on Ebay... Pretty much my entire studio has been equipped from there.... Roland VS 2480, most of my mics, Fostex VF16's etc.
I've had a couple of bad transactions but you can usually avoid the scumbags by paying close attention to seller's feedback ratings and the time they've been an Ebay member

[Highsteel]

I've got a line on a used Roland TD20S-BK - V-Pro TD20 Kit.

Help - they look good - are they - and more paraticularly for recording are they good.

Its a bit of a short fuse offer and is more than I was planning on spending but from what I've seen they're too good not to grab

Highsteel

[BentRabbit]

The best Roland has out there... You get separate outs for recording right from the brain and you always have the option of recording midi out to a sequencer...

If it's a good deal then you should jump on it.... You can always look at it as an investment and prolly get your money back in the future if you decide it's not what you wanted

[NightFlight]

The best electronic drums I know of. They're great for recording, especially rock. And to practice in an apartment - with a close to natural feel. Your son will be able to hear a great drum sound while he practices. I still prefer the acustic set, but the gap is closing.

[mrface2112]

how long has he been playing? will he notice the difference in feel between pads, mesh heads and real heads?

that's what it's always been for me--the feel. pads just don't feel right, regardless of the sounds coming out (which are a LOT more believable than they used to be). the mesh heads have gotten LOT closer, but they're still not there. and then there's the physical feeling in your legs, chest, etc., of hitting 'real' drums.....the way the floor tom vibrates your pant legs, etc.

those "sound off" mutes *do* perform pretty well in terms of killing the sound. then again, so do kitchen towels draped over the drums (which is what i had to grow up playing on).......but IMO, they still kill the feel (mostly in the response of the head). more so on cymbals.

i assume your "jam space" is in an external building which requires separate heating? i can appreciate wanting a "quieter option" for in the house use, but it's going to be a compromise no matter how you slice it.

if he's just starting out or hasn't developed much of a sense of feel yet, he should be perfectly fine on pads........but if you can move to the mesh drums at a stunning price, i would do so. but if you can live with the racket that a real kit would produce, that's obviously the best option IMO.


cheers,
wade

[junplugged]

i tried out 5 electronic kits the other day, i was totally turned off by every single one of them, hated them all. the feel, the look, the sound, all was a huge turn off. they aren't drums afaiac.

[Tim Brown]

Originally Posted by Highsteel

BentRabbit

Thanx for the post. Thats exactly the kind of advice I was looking for.

The kit I'm planning on getting is about $700cdn - is that what you meant by cheap little electronic?

$45 per month to rent and then 60% of the rental back if I decide to buy.

Is buying used electronic drum gear over ebay a good idea?

Highsteel

How handy are you with tools?

Do you or any of the guys you play with know how to solder?

You can build your own pads for a whole lot less than you can buy them for.

I'm going to give you guys a hint:

a 12" will fit over a 5 Gallon bucket.

LOL

You can cut the bucket off about 4" deep (you need it deep enough to put lugs and a tama style tom bracket on it, unless you mount the tom brack on the bottom)

A piezo transducer is like $2 at Radio Shack, and you just wire that to a 1/4" jack.

Have your local foam company make some foam "plugs" that fill up the entire "drum", then take an electric carving knife - cut it half way through so you can mount the trigger in the middle, pop a mesh head on it - the foam does need to touch the head - and tension it how you want it.

Blam - electric drum.

or, you can just have the foam on the middle of the drum - it doesn't matter - it's sole purpose is to transmit the vibrations from the head to the trigger.

The most expensive parts will be the heads, lugs, hoops and mounts, and they are relatively inexpensive, especially when you consider the fact that this will be on par with a Vdrum that will cost you over $100 each.



Tim

[Tim Brown]

One option that might work for you:

Buy him a small regular kit, get a set of ddrum triggers to put on it - put mesh heads on the kit, and get a sound source of some type - that way he'll have a real kit he can put regular heads on at a later date.

Any of the decent economy kits will work. Just buy from a name company - Ludwig, Pearl, Yamaha, Tama, etc.



Tim

[Highsteel]

Thanks for all the feedback. If they were for me I'd try making my own as I am pretty handy with the soldering iron but I expect the boy would have balked as they wouldn't look at all like the ones he gets his lessons on.

We went with the Yamaha rental for now and after almost a week of just playing the electronic kit we warmed up the shed and he really got into the acoustic drums. I think we'll probably buy the rentals.

Highsteel

[Mistral]

Too bad, those TD20's would have been a much nicer kit in the long run. I have a yamaha dtexplorer kit. It's nice, but not a kit I'd play on for years.

[Highsteel]

Originally Posted by Mistral

Too bad, those TD20's would have been a much nicer kit in the long run. I have a yamaha dtexplorer kit. It's nice, but not a kit I'd play on for years.

As it turns out I'm pretty sure the high end kit was a scam. The site disappeared off ebay so probably better for me that I didn't bite. The boy is thrilled with the Yamaha kit so its all good.

Highsteel

[Rimshot]

I think that the question that you need to ask yourself is whether or not your youngster is going to play mostly acoustic or mostly electronic drums when he gets playing. There is a very different feel and weird response to e-drums that can build bad habits when learning. If he plans on playing an electronic kit, then I suppose it will be good to learn on them.
I own a co-op and I have a lot of neighbors that complain about sound levels. I keep a small acoustic kit set up with pads on all of my drum heads and cymbals and hi-hat and I haven't gotten any complaints in the 20 years that I've lived here. My good kit is usually in cases waiting to go and play somewhere, but I bring in my pedal and some of my metal.
Those mesh heads are also very good, but you'll really want a devoted practice kit to use them because it's a pain in the ass to keep changing heads when you need to play.
I had a pad set and it's okay to practice on, but just like the e-drum kits, you have to adjust to the feel. Just like the difference between practicing your rudiments on a pad and then playing the snare......... it feels a lot different.

[IloveJesus]

The obvious advantages to an electronic set are that it's quiet. Put on the headphones and have at it. You can also download samples of different drumsets so that you are, essentially, hearing acoustic drums. If you're playing live (like at church or school or even a club), electronic drums have some advantages in that they are easier to transport, and you can adjust volume, mix, etc. (even though that can be done for an acoustic set with mics, etc.).

For an acoustic set, that all depends. If you spend the bucks and get good equipment, you're going to notice the difference in sound. You can doctor up a 200 dollar guitar with effects, but not a drum set. A crappy drum set sounds crappy.


BUT, is this the kind of thing the kid will stick with? If someone is committed to getting really good, then you might as well spend the money and get the good set (it will retain more value that way anyway for resell). If it's just a hobby or passing phase, just get electronic.

[Mistral]

You guys realize he already got the kit right..

That sucks about e-bay but I'd definitely be careful buying through there and always look at seller ratings. The yamaha kit is definitely good, and I don't regret buying it, but at the same time I wish I could have managed to find a TD3 set within my budget.

I am sure your son will get some good use out of it as a practice kit, and if I were you I wouldn't rule it out for recording purposes either, because recording with midi can yield a lot of flexibility, if you get a decent drum VST your sound palette is virtually unlimited.

[Highsteel]

The boy loves the Yamaha kit. It counts how many hits it receives and he's already near a 1/4 million.

Highsteel

[_brian_]

I used to play around with a basic roland mesh head kit we had in the studio. I'm not a pro drummer but when the novelty dies and i played a real kit again even i couldnt believe the difference. Apart from sounds triggering when they shouldnt and not when they should the pads feel dead. You end up tiring quickly because you end up hitting harder to get more bounce which doesnt really work anyway. Im going to get a cheap accoustic kit as most people are put off when they tried the roland. I sold it ages ago on ebay. You have to balance up the playability and enjoyment level of playing a dampened acoustic set that the pads can be taken off of or the electronic kit. Remember the novelty will wear and the pride of owning his !own! acoustic kit might drive him on to practice more.