Thinking of buying the Phonic Helix18FW

[brsanko]

I've been looking at mixers and interfaces and I can't find anything at anywhere near the price that offers as many features and capabilities. Is there any reason I shouldn't buy this board, sound quality, build quality, software, ect? Thanks for your input.
Brett R. Sanko

[Kevin Deschwazi]

I haven't used it.

In this day and age though truly awful (as in noisy, grainy sounding) gear is pretty rare. With new IC opamps and converters it's pretty cheap and easy to put a recording device together that will record relatively clean sounding tracks if you use them properly (eg. don't record too hot, don't push cheap mic preamps/converters too hard etc.).

It's not going to give you jaw dropping sound quality, I guess you assumed as much yourself given the price. I'd be confident though that if it's used well and assuming everything else is good (instruments, recording environment, mic technique etc.) it would be capable of quite respectable results given the price.

As I said I haven't used it so that would be my best guess given my experience of other cheap gear. Build quality and failure rate could be an issue, as well as driver stability.

Have you tried a search here for opinions from people that have used phonic stuff?

[brsanko]

I did a search of the model and only came up wth two brief mentions of it. I didn't try a general search of the brand. I'll do that.

[Vagodeoz]

Did you check out the Alesis Multimix FW 16?
A friend got the 8 channel Usb 1.1 versions, and is great. The one I posted has about the same features as the phonic I think.

I have also been researching the analog mixer/firewire interface combo. But I decided not to upgrade, until someone puts DA converters for all the channels. That way you can mix with your board using your pc only as a multitrack recorder and maybe for some plugins and FX.

[liv_rong]

Originally Posted by Vagodeoz

Did you check out the Alesis Multimix FW 16?
A friend got the 8 channel Usb 1.1 versions, and is great. The one I posted has about the same features as the phonic I think.

I have also been researching the analog mixer/firewire interface combo. But I decided not to upgrade, until someone puts DA converters for all the channels. That way you can mix with your board using your pc only as a multitrack recorder and maybe for some plugins and FX.

i know this is not the adds section but, funny you mention that board, im am about to put mine on ebay. it is two months old and in mint condition. i had trouble setting it up right on my computer, i would get audio drop outs. worked ok on a friends computer, but didnt use it for long on his, just tested it. it has all original packaging and two extra xlr cables brand new, the cubase it came with never installed. i was going to start bids at $240 plus shipping. sorry to jack your thread man

[MCI2424]

Originally Posted by brsanko

I've been looking at mixers and interfaces and I can't find anything at anywhere near the price that offers as many features and capabilities. Is there any reason I shouldn't buy this board, sound quality, build quality, software, ect? Thanks for your input.
Brett R. Sanko

Generally, Phonic makes Behringer look professional. Get a used board if you need something decent.

[Roguetitan]

Phonoc makes excellent Gear!
I have this and the 740D Powered Mixer and Both are solid pieces of Gear.

[kojdogg]

fwiw a couple of other phonic interfaces have gotten some good press in recent issues (the current issues, i believe) of sound on sound and recording. the reviews are pretty positive, but phonic advertises in both magazines i believe, so you have to factor that in.

[brsanko]

Thanks for your input everybody. I just saw the Alesis board right before I read the post. It's a little more expensive but if the quality is better I might go with that. It'll be a few more months before I have the money so I'll missout on the ebay auction but it'll give me a little more time to do my research.

[brsanko]

The Alesis 16 is discontinued. Amazon still has a couple but it's gonna be while before I get my money so I'll probably miss out. zZounds still has the 12 and 8 but I really want 16 channels. Besides these board will only record at 48khz I really want 96khz capability heck 192khz would be even better I have softrware for burning my own DVD-A discs and it would be nice to take advantage of it's capabilities.

[MOFO Pro]

Originally Posted by brsanko

I really want 96khz capability heck 192khz would be even better I have softrware for burning my own DVD-A discs and it would be nice to take advantage of it's capabilities.

In this price range...it's not going to make a difference... not at all... never

[brsanko]

Originally Posted by MOFO Pro

In this price range...it's not going to make a difference... not at all... never

I disagree.

[brsanko]

Just recording my records or from my reel to reel with my Audigy 2 card I can here a definite difference between 16/44.1 and 24/96 I would think recording from a live performance the gulf would be even larger. Unless you mean a difference between 96 and 192 then you may be right I don't know I haven't listened to much 192 stuff to compare.

Anyways I think I'm gonna spend a bit more and get the MOTU 24I/O Core Computer Recording System for $1420 and a 16-24 channel anolog mixer insted I'm just curious how much I would have to pay for the mixer to reach a good bit of the potential of the interface. Could I get by with something cheap like the Behringer SL2442FXPRO Eurodesk 24-Channel Mixer($380)? Or would that be a waste of a good interface? I would eventually buy a good quality mic preamp for vocals and acoustic instruments.

[bigwillz24]

waste of a decent interface. careful with those motu's there drivers are picky about which pc they want to work on.

[therage!]

Originally Posted by brsanko

Anyways I think I'm gonna spend a bit more and get the MOTU 24I/O Core Computer Recording System for $1420 and a 16-24 channel anolog mixer insted I'm just curious how much I would have to pay for the mixer to reach a good bit of the potential of the interface. Could I get by with something cheap like the Behringer SL2442FXPRO Eurodesk 24-Channel Mixer($380)? Or would that be a waste of a good interface? I would eventually buy a good quality mic preamp for vocals and acoustic instruments.

brsanko,

What exactly are you going to be recording? It really comes down to just how many inputs you need and how you want to mix. Your at a price point where your going to saddle a decent interface with a crappy mixer. With that setup you will most certainly want to mix in the box so you will only be using the mixer for it's pre's and routing.

I've struggled for awhile on getting a new interface (my setup was Delta 1010 and an Alesis Studio 24 mixer) and when I came across the new Yamaha mixers (N12/N8) I finally figured out the N12 is a perfect solution for may home recording people. I got an N12 without hearing one in person and I was nervous until I sang into one of the preamps and I am totally impressed.

A lot people (I've been there) doing home recording get hung up on I/O and tend to overkill and go buy more expensive interfaces and mixers and they never come close to utilizing all the I/O. A lot of people (I'm not saying you) when starting out do not get the grasp right away on routing and really...bussing. That's why in many cases a smaller I/O interface and mixer will work perfectly.

I'm going to throw the Yamaha N12 out there as a recommendation for you. At $1500 you are getting excellent converters and damn nice preamps and Yamaha's Rev X reverb which I have discovered over the past week smokes any reverb plugins I have, which are the ones built into Sonar Producer and Cubase AI. This reverb sounds more natural than any plug I've heard, but of course this is all subjective. The N12 also has a really good built in compressor that has really surprised me too.

To be honest when you consider how the N12 is integrated with Cubase (and most of that integration works with other programs like Sonar and Reaper) the smaller N8 would be perfectly fine for most people. I chose the N12 to have enough pre's for miking drums. If you don't need that an N8 would be ideal and for $1,000 you are NOT going to BEAT the sound quality, period. Perhaps you could match it but when you consider getting that Yamaha reverb and compressor in the deal it's hard to beat. I don't see any company that has a mixer like the N12/N8. You could get a Mackie with their firewire card, but the N12 converters are way above them and your not going to get outstanding reverb with a Mackie.

Let me know if you have any question on the N8/N12. I'm new to it but just cannot get over the sound quality on these units. And one other nice little thing is I don't have any cables running all over except for what I plug into a preamp or insert.

http://www.yamahasynth.com/products/n8n12/features.html

[Vagodeoz]

You might also check out Mackie's Onyx. They have a firewire card upgrade, and I have heard only good comments about them.

[brsanko]

The N12 looks awesome but I was thinking I'd like more inputs I'd like to be able to mic a whole band including the drum kit. But hey I'm totally new to this so I don't really know if this is even how it's done. Maybe I could have a seperate mixer for the drums or even just a preamp and mix several drum mics down to one track I don't know. I think I need to research technique a little more before deciding on equipment. I'd like to figure out how many inputs I really need. I'll most likely be recording rock bands but I have a lot of friends who are into a wide variety of music so I want to be flexible. I will definitely have a full drum kit(thinking of taking drum lessons myself), and also I have a 2 channel reel to reel that I would like to run the live mix to sometimes. Like you said I would only be using the mixer for the preamps and so I could route a mix to the reel to reel, my final mixing would be done on the computer. Is there a relatively inexpensive mixer that has good preamps that would work well the the Motu, or maybe the Yamaha would be the right solution for me? keep the comments coming I'm all ears.

[Nakatira]

I`ve had a few Phonic units in my store, mostley P.A stuff.

and let me tell you if its working its ok, but they have a tendency to come with flaws.

Its very few products that I`ve had that can compete with Phonic return rate, allmost every second unit has to be returned.

I`d be carefull.

IMO, they are around the same quality as Behringer, wich is kinda dogdy

[therage!]

Originally Posted by brsanko

The N12 looks awesome but I was thinking I'd like more inputs I'd like to be able to mic a whole band including the drum kit. But hey I'm totally new to this so I don't really know if this is even how it's done. Maybe I could have a seperate mixer for the drums or even just a preamp and mix several drum mics down to one track I don't know. I think I need to research technique a little more before deciding on equipment. I'd like to figure out how many inputs I really need. I'll most likely be recording rock bands but I have a lot of friends who are into a wide variety of music so I want to be flexible. I will definitely have a full drum kit(thinking of taking drum lessons myself), and also I have a 2 channel reel to reel that I would like to run the live mix to sometimes. Like you said I would only be using the mixer for the preamps and so I could route a mix to the reel to reel, my final mixing would be done on the computer. Is there a relatively inexpensive mixer that has good preamps that would work well the the Motu, or maybe the Yamaha would be the right solution for me? keep the comments coming I'm all ears.

Depending on what you really need for I/O and if the N12 then if you can fit it in get something like an Allen & Heath Mix Wizard. If you want some decent pre's it's going to be hard on the low budget mixers. But you can always buy better gear. Also, Soundcraft makes some nice mixers but even the Yamaha MG series will do.

[brsanko]

I think I'm gonna go with the Motu interface and look for a mixer on ebay. I should be able to get something nice for about $300 including shipping. What brands are good?

[cjpmugsr]

When I first went to rebuild my studio, I tried an Alesis Multimix and had major issues with it. I was having great problems integrating it with Sonar 6. I sold mine and then found the Phonic Helixboard Firewire 24. I was blown away that it was only $700.00! There are a couple of really great options available with the Helix. One is that it's the only 16 channel firewire mic pre out there. The other is that you can change a set of jumpers in the back of the board so it will send the signal to the computer post fader. This allows for an enormous amount of flexability, giving the option for inputting effects and also using the onboard filter on the inputs! I've had mine for about a year now with no problems. The Multimix just doesn't have the kind of flexability that the Phonic has. Phonic has been around for a while, they're just not very well known. I would suggest this board over any Presonus or Alesis product. This unit is definitely the future of recording.

[MCI2424]

Originally Posted by brsanko

I've been looking at mixers and interfaces and I can't find anything at anywhere near the price that offers as many features and capabilities. Is there any reason I shouldn't buy this board, sound quality, build quality, software, ect? Thanks for your input.
Brett R. Sanko

Phonic have pretty poor quality. I would probably go with a Behringer over the Phonic myself.

[reklus]

Originally Posted by cjpmugsr

When I first went to rebuild my studio, I tried an Alesis Multimix and had major issues with it. I was having great problems integrating it with Sonar 6. I sold mine and then found the Phonic Helixboard Firewire 24. I was blown away that it was only $700.00! There are a couple of really great options available with the Helix

The one i had, the firewire 24 something had non stop cracking and popping issues. Turned out not to be a latency problem. Most of the solder on the various boards throughout the whole thing was applied too cold and so the thing would randomly lose connection or just sound like ass.

Also, the preamps have zero dynamic range.

And the support for Phonic is 1 dude who is stoned alot.

[WhiteStrat]

Originally Posted by reklus

And the support for Phonic is 1 dude who is stoned alot.

Maybe it's the only way he can face his day as Phonic Support.

[skygod]

Originally Posted by therage!

brsanko,

What exactly are you going to be recording? It really comes down to just how many inputs you need and how you want to mix. Your at a price point where your going to saddle a decent interface with a crappy mixer. With that setup you will most certainly want to mix in the box so you will only be using the mixer for it's pre's and routing.

I've struggled for awhile on getting a new interface (my setup was Delta 1010 and an Alesis Studio 24 mixer) and when I came across the new Yamaha mixers (N12/N8) I finally figured out the N12 is a perfect solution for may home recording people. I got an N12 without hearing one in person and I was nervous until I sang into one of the preamps and I am totally impressed.

A lot people (I've been there) doing home recording get hung up on I/O and tend to overkill and go buy more expensive interfaces and mixers and they never come close to utilizing all the I/O. A lot of people (I'm not saying you) when starting out do not get the grasp right away on routing and really...bussing. That's why in many cases a smaller I/O interface and mixer will work perfectly.

I'm going to throw the Yamaha N12 out there as a recommendation for you. At $1500 you are getting excellent converters and damn nice preamps and Yamaha's Rev X reverb which I have discovered over the past week smokes any reverb plugins I have, which are the ones built into Sonar Producer and Cubase AI. This reverb sounds more natural than any plug I've heard, but of course this is all subjective. The N12 also has a really good built in compressor that has really surprised me too.

To be honest when you consider how the N12 is integrated with Cubase (and most of that integration works with other programs like Sonar and Reaper) the smaller N8 would be perfectly fine for most people. I chose the N12 to have enough pre's for miking drums. If you don't need that an N8 would be ideal and for $1,000 you are NOT going to BEAT the sound quality, period. Perhaps you could match it but when you consider getting that Yamaha reverb and compressor in the deal it's hard to beat. I don't see any company that has a mixer like the N12/N8. You could get a Mackie with their firewire card, but the N12 converters are way above them and your not going to get outstanding reverb with a Mackie.

Let me know if you have any question on the N8/N12. I'm new to it but just cannot get over the sound quality on these units. And one other nice little thing is I don't have any cables running all over except for what I plug into a preamp or insert.

http://www.yamahasynth.com/products/n8n12/features.html

Whaa? You kidding me? What's to think about? Listen to what 'therage' is saying bro and just DO IT! You'll never look back. Caveat, the MR816CSXs by the partner company has the same features w/o the routine analogish mixer controls that becomes a cost benefit decision OF NOT price differential, rather studio ergonomics -- i.e., stacking these units veertically (Steinberg) or horizontally across a wide table/desk (Yamaha), and that of how you like your workflow to flow.

e.g., I'm an analog mixer guy from over 30 years back (small, medium, large, and monster mixers) so all this ITB is all cybergeek to me when it comes to proaudio creative workflow. I'm not the white smock, pens in the pocket, mouse and midi controller tweaking ever parameter on a digital screen kinda guy. I need buttons, knobs, sliders, panners, and fvvking peak meters boucing back at me when the music is recording and playing back. a Cappice?

Dude I'm not disparaging digital plugs. I love VST native UAD1 UAD2 and Waves wonderlust crappola, but I need to control them from MIXER/DESK type platforms in realtime back and forth from outside of the box w/o latency at high samplig rates using inside of the box tools. Getit? Its a hybrid approach, but I can only afford so much outboard gear, and I can only afford so much outboard gear space. So I have what I have amassed, and augment that with what I wish I had space and more money for. In all actuality, I have the money, but why spend any more for what I don't have too?!?! Sorry for the sidetrack, but point made .... Green on my pocket stays green in my pocket. Anyway ...Now then ....

My preference is both: n12mixers for the studio and the CSX rack units for the road.

This stuff is gonna make the rest of the proaudio academy R&D classes of 1953 to the class of 2009 rethink their business models, architectural paradigms, and their R&D present and future in this market if they're gonna stay in the game, and start making products to build on this architecture, and stop building interfaces to make all the older and faulty closed-ended architectures work.

Here start here and get your brain resituated to the NEW market reality and forget the rest of the crappola on the market already by everybody out there who is still living in the old MATRIX of pro-audio.

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-mu...-n-series.html

Is NEO the ONE to save us form the machines?
FAAK no maan. Yamaha-Steinberg is the ONE ...
the NEW ONE!

Cheers-

~skygod~