What "Lightpipe" pres do you guys prefer?

[NeveSSL]

Hi all!

I'm not happy at all with the conversion and pres on my FW1814... so I'm looking to eventually upgrade, but for now the simplest fix seems to be buying a lightpipe interface of some sort and pres if needed.

Just wondering what everyone here is using and likes right now. I'm leaning toward the Digimax FS, simply because it'll do 96k and I'm probably going to get a Lightbridge after I sell this 1814. I don't like that the inputs are on the front, though, as I prefer a clean install to patch bays, but thats really not going to matter a whole lot sitting on my desk right now anyway.

Any and all opinions are welcomed. Please specify your choices if ya can.

Brandon

[mshilarious]

The Alesis AI3 is old, and I think the Behri uses the same converter chip. There are better converters out there these days. I mean they are usable but I doubt they are any better/different than what you have.

I had the Presonus LT for a while, it was also OK but I can't speak to the quality of the conversion vs. the pres.

Hint: you can usually tell the quality of the conversion by the SNR. Conversion isn't all about SNR, there are plenty of other factors, but I have noted that there is a fairly good correlation there. The trouble with a combined pre/converter is that you'll get a combined SNR, but it's not too tough to make a pre quiet enough. Your FW1814 is 105dBA; I recall the AI3 was 108dBA or so. A reasonably good converter would be more like 115dBA or more.

[Kevin Deschwazi]

I'd be amazed if there was an appreciable difference in sound between the pres/converters in the Tascam and the pres/converters in the entry level boxes you've listed.

[ChuckU]

Despite some of the problems I am having http://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=254481

The sound on the Octopre is better and clearer than the RME Fireface, which is better than the Delta-1010's I used to own, which were better than my Roland VS-880 HD recorder.

[NeveSSL]

Originally Posted by Kevin Deschwazi

I'd be amazed if there was an appreciable difference in sound between the pres/converters in the Tascam and the pres/converters in the entry level boxes you've listed.

Did you mean Firewire 1814? Sorry... I should have specified M-Audio.

I believe there will be a difference. You don't understand how bad the 1814 is... only 9dB of headroom... and its really dull sounding... so I'm pretty sure its going to make a difference. Its worth a shot at least, for me.

Thanks for the replies, guys. I'm gonna give the Octopre a closer look.

Brandon

[Kevin Deschwazi]

Originally Posted by NeveSSL

Did you mean Firewire 1814? Sorry... I should have specified M-Audio.

I believe there will be a difference. You don't understand how bad the 1814 is... only 9dB of headroom... and its really dull sounding... so I'm pretty sure its going to make a difference. Its worth a shot at least, for me.

Thanks for the replies, guys. I'm gonna give the Octopre a closer look.

Brandon

Yeah sorry, I should've read a little more carefully. Tascam do a FW1884 and FW1804 as you probably know.

[bilco]

Behringer ADA8000 - all I could afford at the time, works fine when I need to record the band live. I have had no problems with it at all in the ~ 2 years I have owned it.

bilco

[guttapercha]

There is a link to Shawn Pelton's set-up on the lower left of this page:

http://www.fxpansion.com/index.php?page=1&tab=162

He uses the Octane in his rig. Obviously fine for recording drums, but can't speak for it otherwise.

[NeveSSL]

He's also using a ProjectMix if I'm not mistaken. Its an 1814 with faders. Notice what he has to do to keep from distorting it... put a pad on it!

Just thought I'd point that out.

The Octane is looking pretty good. I don't like that its two spaces... but its not a huge deal.

Thanks!

Brandon

[guttapercha]

Originally Posted by NeveSSL

He's also using a ProjectMix if I'm not mistaken. Its an 1814 with faders. Notice what he has to do to keep from distorting it... put a pad on it!

Just thought I'd point that out.

The Octane is looking pretty good. I don't like that its two spaces... but its not a huge deal.

Thanks!

Brandon

Cool - I didn't take note of his interface. Perhaps if he wasn't using that hot condenser on his 2nd snare he wouldn't need the pad.

Anyway, best of luck with whatever you get; let us know how it works out.

JD

[NeveSSL]

Thanks, man. I appreciate it.

Yeah, I loved how he was like "I really need a 57 on this snare, but since I don't have one I'll just throw this 451 on it"... do I even have to say it?



Brandon

[pipelineaudio]

Our mini-mobile rack has some Digimas F/S's in it. Theyre ok, like the firepod, fine for the most part, absolute SUCK if you have a quiet source

The Fireface mic pres are a tiny bit better but cant go quiet enough, and have no pad

The precision 8 absolutely knocks them back into toyland, but again will need an attenuator for a sensibly quiet level, not sure if the ADAT out version has the same trouble.

[NeveSSL]

Thanks... thats pretty much exactly the input I need.

I can't imagine the Precision 8 being superior!

I really like Millenia HV-3Ds (of which it seems the Precision 8 may be similar to), but they're just a little out of my price range. They're pretty much ruler flat, but an M147 or even a TLM103 with one of those gives some awesome results on my wife's vocals to 2", RADAR, PT, or whatever... but I digress. One day... one day...

Thanks again!

Brandon

[dgatwood]

Originally Posted by NeveSSL

Did you mean Firewire 1814? Sorry... I should have specified M-Audio.

I believe there will be a difference. You don't understand how bad the 1814 is... only 9dB of headroom... and its really dull sounding... so I'm pretty sure its going to make a difference. Its worth a shot at least, for me.

I've never found my FW1814 to be dull in the slightest. If anything, it's a little on the bright side. What exactly are you feeding into it?

Don't get me wrong, I could rant for hours about the things I don't like about the FW1814, but the sound quality isn't one of them....

[NeveSSL]

I'm feeding it with a Beta 57a for now.

Brandon

[Richard Monroe]

Depends on how many channels you need. I like the Joemeek twinQ. -Richie

[dgatwood]

Originally Posted by NeveSSL

I'm feeding it with a Beta 57a for now.

Brandon

Yeah. That's sort of what I figured. Upgrade your mic. I've never heard a pre that didn't sound dull when an SM57/58 was fed into it, and the Betas sound pretty similar.

They're mainly intended as live PA mics, designed to reject feedback when you're standing three feet from a speaker. That goal is wholly incompatible with the goal of getting an even modestly accurate picture of whatever you're pointing the mic at. As a result, they aren't particularly good mics for recording in general unless your goal is to throw away a lot of the highs and almost everything off axis (e.g. for minimizing cymbal bleed into a snare mic). For most recording purposes, though, they sound downright bad, IMHO.

Maybe if you have a high-end preamp with variable impedance that you can dial way up to reduce loading on the transformer to almost zero, you might get a reasonably good sound out of one. Maybe if you mod the microphone by replacing the transformer with something that costs as much as the mic does, you might get a good sound. Short of such extreme changes, though, they'll always sound dull, and frankly, it really isn't worth trying to make one sound good when there are much better mics for recording available for a lot less than you'd be spending for an ADAT preamp.

IMHO, you'd be much better off spending your money on something that will actually help---a microphone that is actually designed for recording---rather than spending it on preamps that will have remarkably minimal impact on the sound of the recording by comparison.

[NeveSSL]

Yep... I'm well aware that SM57s/58s are meant for live use... a lot of live shows are recorded with them and they're made to sound decent, but I don't want to have to be the poor guy doing that. Personally, I HATE SM58s. Betas have more high-end and do sound much less dull than 57s/58s and are what I'm using. I'd love to use a condenser, the problem is when using condensers at home, everything clips.

There is not enough head room. My wife does have a strong voice, and I do understand gain, there's just not enough head room. There have been other times that I have tried recording live off of just inserts of a Mackie... nope... not a chance... everything clipped then, too. Even with turning the gain down on the Mackie to less than 1/4. That was just frustrating. Thats actually what first led me to investigate what was going on.

Thats the reason for the preamp. Which, with all due respect, is what this thread is about. I am also planning on getting a better mic for my wife... I'd really like to get a TLM103 (she sounds great through those and a Millenia... but Millenia is not anywhere near what we can afford right now). I will probably get a GT67, though. But even if I get that first, I can't use it as hot into PT as I'd like, because it clips!

So ultimately, maybe calling the preamps dull was premature. To be honest, I wasn't setting things up when it first struck me as such. My bad. My biggest problem is the headroom, as I have beat into the ground. lol

Brandon

[LP2006]

Originally Posted by dgatwood

I've never found my FW1814 to be dull in the slightest. If anything, it's a little on the bright side. What exactly are you feeding into it?

Don't get me wrong, I could rant for hours about the things I don't like about the FW1814, but the sound quality isn't one of them....

I've used five of the m-audio firewire series interfaces. Two 1814's and three 410's. The preamps on both the 1814's and one of the 410's were unacceptably dull. That is a generalization though. I found that i got dramatically different results based on microphone impedance. Also, I get RF interference on my 1814 depending on the microphones I'm using. My MSH1-A's receive quite a clear signal from 107.1 FM Ann Arbor . No interference what-so-ever when plugged into anything else I've got besides my Allen and Heath console...but I know that console has a grounding problem at the moment. I'm running the 1814 on bus power. Maybe there isn't a proper ground when using it without the power supply...

[dgatwood]

Originally Posted by LP2006

I've used five of the m-audio firewire series interfaces. Two 1814's and three 410's. The preamps on both the 1814's and one of the 410's were unacceptably dull. That is a generalization though. I found that i got dramatically different results based on microphone impedance. Also, I get RF interference on my 1814 depending on the microphones I'm using. My MSH1-A's receive quite a clear signal from 107.1 FM Ann Arbor . No interference what-so-ever when plugged into anything else I've got besides my Allen and Heath console...but I know that console has a grounding problem at the moment. I'm running the 1814 on bus power. Maybe there isn't a proper ground when using it without the power supply...

Probably. The ground inside my previous computer needed to be supplemented with a grounding pigtail when using the FW1814 because it was too sensitive to CPU noise off its ground bus.

Weird that you experienced significant variation between preamps in the 410s. Since that and the FW1814 are close cousins, I'm guessing that means they updated the design at some point. Not a surprise about the impedance being important. That's why really high-end pres have variable impedance. You probably won't find anything comparable on low-end designs, though. I'm curious what Chance's preamp group buy is going to look like in that regard. (Watch the Mic Forum for news.)

[NeveSSL]

This thread was showing up as having a new post a day ago. ???

Weird!

Anyway, for something a little more on topic, I think I'm going to go with the Digimax FS, if nothing else simply because its 96k and one day, specifically when I get my Apogee AD16, it will make a great headphone send. IE, I can use it further past the present.

Master plan is to eventually get an M-Audio FireBridge with an Apogee AD16 for inputs and the Digimax FS for outs.

I know this post is over a year old, and to be honest I'm pretty sure I'm getting a Mackie Universal Control as I'm tired of mousing mixes (especially after being on a Duality ) and I'm taking a mixing class this semester. However, I'm pretty sure the Digimax FS is in second place, right in front of monitors, new mics, and everything else.

Brandon

[thajeremy]

Originally Posted by NeveSSL

This thread was showing up as having a new post a day ago. ???

Weird!

someone probably voted in the poll....that will cause it to show up as a recent post....

[NeveSSL]

Ahhh... thats interesting...

Thanks!

Brandon

[aviv]

360 pound will grab you the MOTU 8pre brand new, thats my personal favourite for really well priced all round good conversion.
Otherwise id go for the RME octamic D 2 or whatever its called
The new octamic with the Digital conversion expansion on it.
Aviv

[SuperGeek]

I use RME-Audio octamic 2 with no problems as well as the FF800.

at the same time if set up with a computer and Alesis HD24 ADAT.

can use the octamic to go to both units the FF800 on the main out put. and the AUX output to the HD24. with not problems. Use this for mobile recording. In case computer crashes I still have the show.