Replacing my Delta 1010... need suggestions!

[Superhuman]

So my Delta 1010 soundcard has just died on me and I can't get it serviced because I bought it off E-bay from the US and I'm in Europe.
I need a new card fast and haven’t a clue where to start, here's what I'm looking for:

-Multiple analogue ins and outs (1/4 inch and xlr) so I can hook up a couple of DI's, a preamp, Eventide Harmonizer and leave them set up without having to switch cables around (as per the Delta)
-Midi in and out so I can hook up a midi keyboard and DAW controller
-I also want phantom powered XLR's
-As close to 'zero' latency as possible
-Something not overly complicated to set up
-Rack mounted is fine, it can take the place of my Delta.

PCI or firewire?? The other alternative is to trade in my HUI and get a DAW controller Tascam or M-Audio (if this is the way to go I need suggestions!)
It was the lack of XLR's and phantom power that bugged me about the Delta, everything else was great for the money.

Just in case this is important, I'll be hooking this up to a Dell Optiplex pc into Cubase SX3, I'll be running a lot of VST's and also a UAD-1 card.

Helpful suggestions welcome and worth rep points!

[dickiefunk]

I replaced my Delta 1010 a couple of years ago because I was in a similar situation. I ended up getting an Echo Layla 3G and love it!

http://www.echoaudio.com/Products/PCI/Layla3G/index.php

It has top notch A/D D/A converters and is even more rock solid than my Delta 1010. I found the sound to be a fraction tighter and more focused and don't regret getting the Layla 3G at all!
I've seen shootouts with the RME Fireface 800 and Echo Audiofire 12 (same converters/audio quality as the Layla 3G) and the Echo came out favourably!
There is a firewire version of the Layla 3G called the Audiofire 8 so you can choose which you prefer.
If I wanted more than 2 pres I would choose the new Presonus Firestation Project. The converters have been upgraded from the Firestation and promises to be an excellent interface!

http://www.presonus.com/firestudio_project.html

[tmix]

I accomplished what you want to do by simply buying a decent 24 channel to 8 bus mixer and run it to my Deltas.
Phantom power
xlrs and 1/4 inch ins / outs
zero latency

still have to use the midi from the deltas.

Dickie is right also.
You could buy another Delta , but you'd probably be happier with a Layla for the same price.
It sounds a tad clearer. I believe it is mainly because the even though the A/D converters are about the same, the D/A section (for playback) seems better and monitoring from the card is cleaner.I circumvent the D/A with using the SPDIF outs through Lucid Converters.

[Superhuman]

Tmix, thanks for the info, My Delta is totally burned out though so it's a completely new unit fo me I'm afraid - having two hooked up together would be great but then there is the cost and as you said i could probably get better gear for the money (like the Layla)
Dickie thanks for the links. Both the Layla and the Firestudio look good - which to ge though... the Layla looks good becuase it's tried and tested at this stage. Some nicer features on the firestudio though - I like the idea of have the plugs on the front face of the unit too - that's one thing that bugs the hell out of me with my Delta!
Money aside, any opinions on which of the two is the 'better' unit?

[Kevin Deschwazi]

E-mu 1616m is worth considering. I have it's predecessor the 1820m and it's the best interface I've used of several in this sort of price range (including the 1010).

Same converters as used in Lynx cards and PT HD systems. I'm not aware of another prosumer interface with better converters in fact.

http://www.emu.com/products/product....&product=15189

If you need 8 in/out I'd sniff around for a used 1820m on ebay.

[Roguetitan]

superhuman
I just sent you a PM

[apl]

I've got a Focusrite Sapphire Pro 10 which uses FireWire. It's got XLRs on the back for the mics and 1/4 on the front for lines. So far I like it with Reaper.

http://www.focusrite.com/product/saffire_pro_10_i_o/

[lomky]

I ran into the same issue last year, my Delta 1010 blew one of the caps. I bought a Echo Audiofire 12 and never looked back. My ears aren't "golden" enough to notice a difference, but the good news is I can't hear nay difference

[Kevin Deschwazi]

Originally Posted by lomky

I ran into the same issue last year, my Delta 1010 blew one of the caps. I bought a Echo Audiofire 12 and never looked back. My ears aren't "golden" enough to notice a difference, but the good news is I can't hear nay difference

Couldn't you just have replaced the cap?

Seems crazy to ditch a piece of gear because a component costing pennies fails.

[dickiefunk]

Originally Posted by Superhuman

Dickie thanks for the links. Both the Layla and the Firestudio look good - which to ge though... the Layla looks good becuase it's tried and tested at this stage. Some nicer features on the firestudio though - I like the idea of have the plugs on the front face of the unit too - that's one thing that bugs the hell out of me with my Delta!
Money aside, any opinions on which of the two is the 'better' unit?

I would guess that they would be on par with each other audio quality wise! What might be worth considering is the Presonus has a master volume control where as the Layla 3G doesn't. It obviously also has 8 pres with meters and the Layla has 2. I recently spoke to Ken Field from Echo and he mentioned that Echo are planning on releasing an 8 pre interface. The Layla 3G also has ADAT which is handy for adding 8 extra pres!

You will be able to make excellent quality recordings on either so it's really down to features.

[lomky]

Originally Posted by Kevin Deschwazi

Couldn't you just have replaced the cap?

Seems crazy to ditch a piece of gear because a component costing pennies fails.

Yeah I could have, but at pretty much the same time that my 1010 went I upgraded to a Mac Pro, so the PCI card wouldn't have worked anyway. Actually M-Audio told me that the Delta series has a lifetime warranty so they will fix for free, just haven't gotten around to it yet as it is pretty low priority considering I don't need/can't use the interface anymore.

[Kevin Deschwazi]

Originally Posted by lomky

Yeah I could have, but at pretty much the same time that my 1010 went I upgraded to a Mac Pro, so the PCI card wouldn't have worked anyway. Actually M-Audio told me that the Delta series has a lifetime warranty so they will fix for free, just haven't gotten around to it yet as it is pretty low priority considering I don't need/can't use the interface anymore.

Cool, nice to know you'll be able to get some cash for it.

[Carter]

Originally Posted by dickiefunk

I would guess that they would be on par with each other audio quality wise! What might be worth considering is the Presonus has a master volume control where as the Layla 3G doesn't. It obviously also has 8 pres with meters and the Layla has 2. I recently spoke to Ken Field from Echo and he mentioned that Echo are planning on releasing an 8 pre interface. The Layla 3G also has ADAT which is handy for adding 8 extra pres!
You will be able to make excellent quality recordings on either so it's really down to features.

Well the FireStudio has Dual Smux ADAT so you can add 16 extra pre's! I own two.....

[SuperGeek]

I have a RME Fireface 800 and a octamic d

I am happy with it

Like the total mix software that comes with it

[dgatwood]

IMHO, buying legacy parallel PCI gear ranks right up there with buying a SDTV. In a few years, neither will be particularly usable anymore....

Most (all?) modern motherboard chipsets already don't support legacy parallel PCI natively, so manufacturers that add PCI slots are doing so at significant extra expense, using costly and inefficient PCIe to PCI bridging. This means two things:

1. With newer machines, you are much more likely to encounter compatibility problems with PCI cards due to increased bus latency.
2. Motherboard manufacturers want to get rid of parallel PCI as quickly as they think they can get away with it to reduce parts costs. (Some already have, including Apple.)

Neither of these bodes well for people spending several hundred dollars on a PCI-based interface. While the final nail may not be in the coffin, parallel PCI is quite thoroughly dead. You should bear this in mind when choosing an interface that you plan to keep for a long time to come.

[tmix]

I respectfully disagree.
This is only the case if you plan on dumping a perfectly good working computer just to buy the latest and greatest.
There is absolutely no reason to not build a good working recording set up and leave it alone. Treat it like you would a stand alone recorder.Get to know the software extensively and use the heck out of it.
Get something different if you want to play games and work on the internet

By the time it dies a horrible death due to old age you will have gotten your moneys worth and be ready to buy something different.

You can hedge your bet a little by getting an interface that does not use a proprietary card and cable. Like an Lightpipe based interface or a AES/EBU interface. That way the converters can still be used via a lightbridge to Firewire setup or any new format bridge that comes up.
Heck, pick up a used RME card with ADAT I/O.

But getting back too the original focus. Even buying a Layla type card for a few hundred bucks is an investment that you can get your money's worth out of. It should make you happy for long enough to record a bunch of music. A lot of people will spend more on a mic they pull out of the closet once in a blue moon than the cost of a good used interface.

My thoughts obviously.
I fully believe you will make better music by being more experienced with your tools (assuming they are basically sufficient) than worrying about keeping a cutting edge rig.

[dgatwood]

Originally Posted by tmix

I respectfully disagree.
This is only the case if you plan on dumping a perfectly good working computer just to buy the latest and greatest.

I don't know about you, but I periodically upgrade my recording machine just because I need more CPU power for effects and stuff. I also periodically upgrade to minimize the downtime due to hardware failure. If a computer hits the three year mark, I start getting nervous. I definitely won't be using the same computer in ten years. I don't have much hope that any computer I buy will still be working reliably in ten years. Further, I can almost guarantee I'll have a faster CPU in my cell phone by then and would be swearing at the computer for being so unbelievably slow if I were still using it in ten years.

I don't see the need to do the same with my audio interfaces, though. If one dies, I don't lose anything, and can replace it in minutes with minimal downtime (provided I continue to live within a few minutes drive of a Guitar Center or equivalent, of course). As a result, I expect to still be using the same interface when I've gone through three or four computers. Your mileage may vary. Maybe the audio quality will improve enough to make me decide to upgrade it, but I don't want to be forced into it because I upgraded my computer. (This already happened to me once. I won't make the mistake of cutting corners and buying a nearly obsolete technology twice.)

I wouldn't buy a VGA panel today, either, for the same reason. One could easily argue that I would get my money's worth out of the VGA panel, but why would I do that when a DVI panel costs about the same price and is much more future-proof? Why buy something that you will get your money's worth out of when you could buy something for a similar price and get twice your money's worth? While you might decide to replace it anyway in a few years, the key here is that it would be your choice to do so, not forced upon you by an incompatible hardware update. Also, the DVI panel will still have resale value in a few years, while the then-obsolete VGA panel basically won't (or at least not to nearly the same degree). (Yes, VGA is becoming obsolete; we're starting to see a move from DVI to HDMI, at which point analog panels will rapidly decrease in value. If you have a VGA panel you've been thinking about selling, now would be a good time....)

Another analogy: assume that you have two Toyota dealers. One has a 2005 Toyota, one has a 2002 Toyota. They are asking the same price. You plan to keep it for five years and sell it. Do you buy the 2002 or the 2005? Of course you buy the 2005. In ten years, you statistically will have had fewer problems with the newer model, and the car will still be three years newer, so the resale value at the end will be higher. You'd get your money's worth out of either one, but you'd still be a fool to buy the 2002 unless you knew that something was wrong with the 2005....

In much the same way, spending hundreds (or... horror... thousands) of dollars on PCI gear doesn't make sense unless you are making a living on it. If you are making a living buying this gear, go ahead and go PCI if you really want to. You can afford to replace it in a few years without regret. For home recording, though, most people's definition of "getting their money's worth" means being able to keep it running until the hardware dies. Buying PCI gear artificially limits your ability to do that without offering any real benefit over other gear that doesn't. That just doesn't make any sense to me.

[Vagodeoz]

Get the Alesis MultiMix Firewire.
Not it's on 600$ but a few days ago was on sale on 400$
Still worth taking a look at. You get 16 inputs (8 XLR and 8 TRS)
Plus all the AD/DA converters are the same ones from the allmighty HD24
Also, you get an analog mixer

[tmix]

dgatwood
I hear you.
I guess it is an experience thing, that creates a frame of reference.
I have had the same PC for 6 years with only minor issues.
I am the type that is a bit of a cheapskate and can live (recording wise) a little on the backside of the technology curve.

Yes I love high quality, and I can hear it, I also mainly deal in recording acoustic based music with little to no effects so I don't find myself needed to push the horsepower of my rig. I do this for a living (part time) and need to watch my purchases based on the income of the studio. I do keep redundancy spares in both computer components and interfaces so as not to have much down time.
I am the type to read the car histories on Consumer reports and pick the best low mileage proven car to save a buck but also see what models have the best reliability.

I guess ultimately it depends on how much recording the poster does, how tight funds are, how sure of what he wants he is, whether he wants to really be uber serious with his home studio or is just having fun.

I respect your point of view. It is legitimate. Just from a different perspective and interest.

Tom