Trying to take my own advice...Can I have yours?

[chrisharris]

A few weeks ago, my sister was asking for advice about the purchase of an acoustic guitar for her 6 year old who wanted to start taking guitar lessons. Now, I know the kid, and I know he has a great ear and a sincere interest in the instrument, so I told her to spend more than she wanted to in order to get him an instrument that would stay in tune, sound good, and not kill his hands. In other words, MAKE IT FUN!!!

Of course everybody knows that there are a lot of kids who get a guitar that ends up sitting in the closet gathering dust forever, but don't hedge your bets to save money by getting a cheap instrument; it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy when your kid doesn't play that piece of shit.

She took my advice and bought a little baby taylor for him, and all is well.

Now my 10 Year old wants a Gibson SG - I mean, he REALLY wants a Gibson SG. He's freaking 10, though...and I think spending that kind of jack on a guitar that he wants mostly because he likes AC/DC is probably a bad idea. So I thought I'd compromise and maybe get him an Epiphone SG. I know very little about electric guitars. Are these things pieces of shit? I'm asking because I really need to order it online because I don't have a major guitar vendor within 100 miles of me. Some of them in the $300-$500 range seem to get some decent user-reviews, but you never know if those are being written by 8 year old's or manufacturer's reps, lol. I really don't want to cheap out on my kid, but if an instrument plays and holds up well, it damned sure doesn't have to say "Gibson" on it to be purchased by me. I'm like...the opposite of a guitar snob.

I'm sure there have been a bazillion threads on Gibson v. Epiphone, but my question is a little broader because I'm really wanting opinions about the suitableness of an Epi for a 10 year old. What about an Epiphone LP? My kid weighs less than most Les Pauls...are the Epis any lighter?

I really wish he wanted a tele, lol...this would be so much easier.

[32-20-Blues]

I played in a band a few years back, and the other guitarist played an Epi SG, so I used it on certain songs. Beautiful guitar with regard to quality, but one thing I will say is that the thing was damn neck-heavy. I mean, I'm a big guy, but this was an effort to hold and play for anything longer than fifteen minutes.

Just bear it in mind, because if the thing takes a nose dive towards the floor, it's headtsock angle means that you'll likely be looking at a broken neck.

Good luck to your kid, hope he takes to the music.

[dudelysses]

I had an epiphone les paul for a while, but I was pretty disappointed with the sound of it. I have found that most epiphones are like this, mainly because of the terrible stock pickups.

I would suggest getting a copy. If you are thinking about getting an epiphone just because it is made by gibson, thats probably not a good idea. You should listen to sound samples and read reviews of the copies and ask some people around here. Even if the copies sound the same, they will be cheaper, and then when your son is a bit older and wants to upgrade he has that option.

I have also heard these guitars are pretty good - but I have yet to play them.
http://www.jhs.co.uk/vintageelectric.html

[chrisharris]

Originally Posted by 32-20-Blues

Good luck to your kid, hope he takes to the music.

Thanks, I appreciate that. He's actually been playing for awhile. He just sort of took an old acoustic that used to be my daughter's and she helped him learn some basics. Then he took an old Squire out of the garage and an amp I'd forgotten I had and he's been using Google and his ear to learn songs...lots and lots of AC/DC songs, lol. I had planned on getting him a better guitar for Christmas, but the input jack on the Squire finally shit itself completely this week, so I guess there's no time like the present to get another guitar for him.

Never even thought about the balance issue. Are LP's better?

[chrisharris]

Originally Posted by dudelysses

I had an epiphone les paul for a while, but I was pretty disappointed with the sound of it. I have found that most epiphones are like this, mainly because of the terrible stock pickups.

Thanks man.

[ggunn]

Originally Posted by dudelysses

I had an epiphone les paul for a while, but I was pretty disappointed with the sound of it. I have found that most epiphones are like this, mainly because of the terrible stock pickups.

Not all Epi's are dogs. A friend of mine has an Epi Dot (their version of an ES335), which is not bad at all, and the Epi Jack Casady bass is highly regarded by many bassists.

[32-20-Blues]

Originally Posted by chrisharris

Never even thought about the balance issue. Are LP's better?

Afraid I can't answer that - I'm strictly a Fender guy, have never even held a Les Paul!

Incidentally, for not much more than the 300-500 range you're talking about, you could get him a genuine American Gibson:

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Gibson-F...70-i1149236.gc

[bagpipe]

Originally Posted by chrisharris

Never even thought about the balance issue. Are LP's better?

This is my first post here - hello everyone.

Regarding Les Pauls, they are also known for having balance problems, but they are "body heavy" rather than neck heavy. I hate trying to play a Les Paul sitting down, but they are okay when using a strap. The other issue with Les Pauls is that they tend to be very heavy. Might become an issue for a younger kid trying to learn

I dont know what budget you have in mind, but you might think about the Korean made PRS guitars. I have a US made PRS, but I was very impressed with the PRS SE line. They are a dual humbucker guitar and to me they sound similar to an SG. You could easily pull of AC/DC licks and tone with one of the SE Customs.

[prestomation]

I've been a very happy Epi G-400 player for a number of years. Prior to 2002(or somewhere around there), IIRC, the cheap overseas epiphones were built in the same factory as Samick, etc, etc. Gibson built there own factory earlier this decade in china, and that's where the new epi's come from.

I say this, because I think alot of people don't like the older ones, but the new china ones are a step up. Mine was made in china.

I had a problem with the balance of my SG when I got it, but a 3" leather strap will cure that, I have no problems with it.

Our other guitar player just bought a G-400 a few weeks ago. It weighs about half(!!) as much as my SG. Seriously, it weighs a fraction of a lot of LP's. That is probably a "bad thing" generally, but he loves it.

Sorry for the fanboyism.

You may want to try heritage, alot of people love them and they are even cheaper. I personally havn't played any though.

[Oancient1]

Angus Young on a tele? Don't think so. Pedals can only do so much!

I played an epi 335 and thought it very nice for the price range, and quite comparable to a real deal 335 I had played a long while ago. I played both Gibson LP and SG in the old days and would choose the light weight of the SG any day over the brick of an LP. Balance was never a problem for me with the SG.

I have heard much good and some bad about epis, with most of the bad coming from owners of real Gibsons, usually LPs. The epi SGs in the price range you mention ought to have a little better pickups than the models I have seen around $200, and should be worth a chance if you shop at an on-line retailer like Musicians Friend or American Musical Supply that have a good customer service reputation and a 30-day refund policy. You might not know electrics well, but you or your daughter should be able to check out the neck and intonation when it arrives to make sure you are not getting something defective.

Tom

[ocnor]

These are supposed to be pretty decent. http://www.rondomusic.com/valkyriehc.html

[buckkillr8]

I'll also comment that the Epi G-400 is a nice guitar. My brother has one and I was really surprised at how well it played and felt right out of the box.

[Oancient1]

Originally Posted by bagpipe

but I was very impressed with the PRS SE line. They are a dual humbucker guitar and to me they sound similar to an SG. You could easily pull of AC/DC licks and tone with one of the SE Customs.

Hi bagpipe -- did you just heat the Korean PRS or play it it? If so, how was the feel of it?

Tom

[chrisharris]

Ok, sweet. I appreciate the input/advice. I felt instantly better when this thread didn't immediately erupt into indignant flaming about how shitty epiphones are, lol.

I had already asked him to do his own "online" shopping and to give me his top 5. This is what he settled on, and I guess I can't say it's a bad choice until after it gets here. I know 2 things for certain. (1) it's better than the broken guitar in his room right now; and (2) there's a 30 day return policy.

I'll keep my fingers crossed.

I was proud of him for 2 things...first, even though the guitar is on backorder, he stuck by his decision...he's willing to wait, which is something I'd have been incapable of doing when I was 10. The other thing has nothing to do with this thread...he just came up to me a few days ago and gave me his opinion about Angus' guitar tone. "Dad, it's heavy, but he doesn't use that much distortion." Hahaha...I almost threw up from pride.

Here's what we're gonna' do for now, and thanks again...I'll post back after it gets here.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/produ...tar?sku=512455

[bagpipe]

Originally Posted by Oancient1

Hi bagpipe -- did you just heat the Korean PRS or play it it? If so, how was the feel of it?

Tom

Yeah, I've played a few of them actually - thats what impressed me most. They dont feel like cheap guitars. I also really like the the neck. I like to play a thicker neck guitar and these guitars have that. If you're a fan of the skinny Ibanez necks though, you may not like them. I also like the stock pickups - you could easily gig on a regular basis with one of these.

[Oancient1]

Thanks bagpipe. I have to drive a while to get to a place I can play a PRS, but I think I'll do that. If you as a real deal US PRS player think highly of them, it means something.

Tom

[Gear_Junky]

Epiphones are not bad guitars - they're made by Samick. It's the pickups in them that are to blame - they are simply placeholders until you get yourself some custom pickups, such as those from guitarfetish.com

Rondo Music is a great source for decent child-size acoustics, smaller strats and yes, even an SG copy or they also have an assymetrical SG-shape, called a Valkyrie, looks nice if you like SG.

They have copies of Gibson, Fender and PRS guitars, some semi-hollows and some good budget acoustics. Basses too.

Many of their instruments are as good or better than Epiphone, cost less, more choices (they have a lot of Fender copies, too) and from what I hear stock pickups are somewhat better than Epis, so you'll have some time before you upgrade.

What? Of course you'll have to upgrade pickups. Get rid of those ceramics and go with something Alnico.

Anyway, do some reading of reviews online, you'll see that Rondo is a great place to deal with.

[Dani Pace]

Before you spend your hard earned cash look at a couple of other options. Samick makes a SG style (about the same price range an an Epi) with better stock pups and hardware. Another possibility would be an Ibanez GAX 70 or GAX 120, not quite SG style but cloce with a slimmer and thinner neck (great for kids and people with small hands) and a lot lighter. I recomend the GAX series for any aspiring young guitarist, I have one as my back up guitar whenever I gig and a couple of my students use one regularly.

[chrisharris]

Originally Posted by Dani Pace

Before you spend your hard earned cash look at a couple of other options. Samick makes a SG style (about the same price range an an Epi) with better stock pups and hardware. Another possibility would be an Ibanez GAX 70 or GAX 120, not quite SG style but cloce with a slimmer and thinner neck (great for kids and people with small hands) and a lot lighter. I recomend the GAX series for any aspiring young guitarist, I have one as my back up guitar whenever I gig and a couple of my students use one regularly.

Oh, I have no doubt that you're absolutely correct, and I hope my son will make better decisions as he becomes more experienced, but a big part of this decision, I think, is about fun for him. I very much wanted him to be involved in the decision, because he's already playing. I think I just needed some reassurance that the guitar wasn't a complete p.o.s.

Let's be realistic here...He's 10 - by the time he starts figuring out that the pickups don't have enough output and don't bite enough, that guitar will have fallen onto the floor 50 times, it'll have been jammed into the ceiling fan at least 5 times, and he'll have forgotten why he ever liked Angus Young at all, lol - I'm assuming he'll be looking to "better deal" the instrument at about the same time that he's competent enough to make the choice of his next guitar 100% on his own.

[32-20-Blues]

Beautiful looking guitar, and not crazy money either. Yeah, looks like a good decision.

[prestomation]

Originally Posted by Gear_Junky

Epiphones are not bad guitars - they're made by Samick.

Not so

http://www.epiphone.com/news.asp?NewsID=83

"Fifteen years ago, a lot of, but certainly not all, Epiphone guitars as well as other brands, were made at the Samick factory in Korea. Today, they don't make any guitars for us. In fact, they closed the Samick guitar factory in Korea a few years ago."

While I don't know if the pickups changed, Epiphone has manufactured its own guitars for several years now.

[muttley600]

Originally Posted by chrisharris

Oh, I have no doubt that you're absolutely correct, and I hope my son will make better decisions as he becomes more experienced, but a big part of this decision, I think, is about fun for him. I very much wanted him to be involved in the decision, because he's already playing. I think I just needed some reassurance that the guitar wasn't a complete p.o.s.

Let's be realistic here...He's 10 - by the time he starts figuring out that the pickups don't have enough output and don't bite enough, that guitar will have fallen onto the floor 50 times, it'll have been jammed into the ceiling fan at least 5 times, and he'll have forgotten why he ever liked Angus Young at all, lol - I'm assuming he'll be looking to "better deal" the instrument at about the same time that he's competent enough to make the choice of his next guitar 100% on his own.

Your absolutely bang on the money with that assesment, but he will ALWAYS remember that first axe, so your doing right to make sure it's a player and something he can grow with until he's able to put his own money into something he really needs not something he really wants.

It's not what you want to hear but for for young kids, and mine are still too young so this is just observation and a bit of experience putting guitars in the hands of my nephews and nieces. The tele/strat style stuff is better because it's better balanced and a bit easier on small hands. Thinner necks, better balance. If it has to be an SG there is absolutely nothing wrong with the Epi's. They are solidly built and can be setup well. He will grow with it. If you can't audition them. Consider getting a setup done on it once you get it delivered.

Hope he learns to love music making and the guitar in particular. Can't wait until mine are old enough to want their first axe. It's the start of a long and wonderful journey. Teach your children well....Good luck.

[Roguetitan]

since he does play I would say get him what he wants.
you can get a SG menace new for 800 bucks
the Gibson SG 67 Special with P 90's is going to cost around 15 hudred.

I guarantee He would be very happy with the menace model.

[RandyW]

I vote for a Gibson Melody Maker.

[ggunn]

Originally Posted by RandyW

I vote for a Gibson Melody Maker.

He already said that his kid wants an Epi SG. I say get him what he wants; at ten years old whatever shortcomings it has will not be as big a deal to him as getting exactly what he picked out for himself.