M-30 vs. M-208, what should I choose? (can't afford both)

[pentatonik]

hi there folks,

sorry to go again with that question.
I actually did some thread research on this forum, and found usefull information about mixers and so on (thx to all contributors!), but I also noticed that "what mixer should I use with..." questions are coming back again and again... (specially with my beloved TSR-8, dont ask why!!)
Unfortunately, I am now in such an emergency that I have to post this question again.

I am currently facing a double purchase opportunity (don't even think of stealing it from me: it's on the french market ) at the very same price, and I have to make a choice:

TASCAM M-30 or TASCAM M-208?
I own a TSR-8.
I'd like to be able to record both 8track-at-once and 4track-at-once.

What I already know (or think I do):
both of these mixers are 8/4/2 (I mean 8 mono ins, 4 busses, 2 mains).
So 8track-at-once would be with Direct Outs (or inserts) and 4track-at-once
from busses (submixes).
both of these mixers are NOT "B" versions, so no phantom.

First question:
I found that from cjacek: it is the M-30 if I'm right.
8 outs to the 8 tracks recorders? Is that 8 independant outs at once, or the 1-5, 2-6, 3-7, 4-8 thing (which I never figured out)?
I though the M-30 is 4 busses only? Are they stereo busses?

Second question:
Which one is smaller and lighter? the 208, I guess?
(I'd need flexibility and compacity)

Third question:
Something I don't get: why the hell does the 208 have 14 faders (8 ins, 4 busses and 2 mains, with differents colors, so teaching, so transparent, even Marty McFly could understand that) while the 30 has only 10 faders (8ins, 2 mains)? Are his busses controled by faders?

Fourth question:
Well, which one should I choose after all?

[pentatonik]

can't edit twice?

Fifth question:
Do they both have direct outs (where? postEQ? postFAD? switchable?) as well as inserts (where? preEQ? switchable?)?

thanks

[cjacek]

pentatonik: I believe the TSR-8 was originally paired up with the TSR-8 but at the same time the M-30 is no slouch either. BOTH will give you what you need, ability to record 4 - 8 tracks at once. I have no experience with the M-208 though but Beck does (with his TSR-8) and I'm sure he'll chime in soon.

My general recommendation would be to get the mixer which is in the BEST overall condition. Is this a local pickup or shipping? Again, both of the mixers enable you to do what you want so pick on condition.

[pentatonik]

thanks!

Originally Posted by cjacek

pentatonik: I believe the TSR-8 was originally paired up with the TSR-8

guess you mean "with the M-208"? or maybe 308?

both are local pickup...
but I won't be the one to pick it up (a friend will).
both seem in good condition.
I lied, there's a slight difference in price (100 vs. 120€, both cheap for me, but huge difference with your crappy dollars ).

what about compacity / usability?
14 x 60mm faders (208) vs. 10 x 100mm faders + 4 knobs for busses (30) ?

[cjacek]

Originally Posted by pentatonik

thanks!
guess you mean "with the M-208"? or maybe 308?

both are local pickup...
but I won't be the one to pick it up (a friend will).
both seem in good condition.
I lied, there's a slight difference in price (100 vs. 120€, both cheap for me, but huge difference with your crappy dollars ).

what about compacity / usability?
14 x 60mm faders (208) vs. 10 x 100mm faders + 4 knobs for busses (30) ?

Oh man, sorry, I did mean paired up with the 208 originally. Sorry, I've been having a mighty stressful time lately...

BTW, sorry to not have answered your written out questions but I'm unsure about several of them and don't want to make an error..

The M30 doesn't have 100 mm faders.

I don't have the specs on the M208 but I know the M30 is like 30 - 35 lbs, quite heavy for a small / mid size mixer. Have you downloaded the M30 manual, I had uploaded recently?
http://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=251739

It has a ton of info on the specs and connectivity of the mixer.

I know you said you can afford only one mixer but at that price it's really worth getting the 2. You can always sell the other if you don't like it.

[pentatonik]

Originally Posted by cjacek

quite heavy for a small / mid size mixer. Have you downloaded the M30 manual, I had uploaded recently?
http://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=251739

It has a ton of info on the specs and connectivity of the mixer.

I know you said you can afford only one mixer but at that price it's really worth getting the 2. You can always sell the other if you don't like it.

oops. had forgotten about this manual (which I already thanked you for , I should have remembered).
I quickly went through it once again, and:

• can't believe how teachfull this manual is (chapter about dB, and everything). I'm quite young and astonished about how these guys used to rule... this looks rather like a patient friend explaining stuff than like nowadays' trade!!
• the M-30 seems much more complete! more routing possibilities... sweepable mids... DirectOuts which the 208 doesn't have... even PHONO ins...

Well... I'm currently building a preference for the M-30...
What about the sound, anyone? preamps and EQ: are they equals on 30 and 208?
Maybe more important: considering that 30 is older stuff, am I facing a risk of deterioration of the parts which could alleviate sound quality?

(I know I said both are local pickups, but... I don't have the opportunity to test these machines. Even if I had, am not sure I could ear it - and I won't go inside the machine to change parts, I'm afraid - at least for now that I'm still a newbie.)

[Beck]

I have the M-216 and M-208.

The M-30 and M-208 are both nice mixers, but I would usually go with the M-208 for recording, especially if you will be doing location recording.

The M-208 is newer, smaller, lighter (8.5 kg vs. 16 kg), quieter, and the fader layout is handy for mixing. It also has two Effect/Aux busses and dedicated stereo effect returns. The mid EQ is semi parametric.

The downside is that it has no Buss in for stacking other mixers and no direct outs. However, the lack of direct outs is usually no big deal. Each of the four busses has two RCA outputs for use with an 8-track recorder. This is where the 1-5, 2-6, 3-7, 4-8 thing comes in. Busses 1, 2, 3 and 4 connect to tracks 1, 2, 3 and 4. Busses 1, 2, 3 and 4 also connect to tracks 5, 6, 7 and 8. You can record up to four individual tracks at once through the mixer, so there is no need (for most people) to have direct outs.

The M-30 was designed mainly for recording, but is missing some important features for recording. The M-208 was designed for recording and live sound, so is not optimized for either. I’ve modified my M-208 by putting in newer op-amps and Buss inputs. I also added switches so the effect return can go to Buss 1, 2, 3, and 4, as well as the stereo buss. If I had the M-30 I would have modify it quite a bit. Neither board is perfect as is, but the M-208 gives you more to start with, IMO.