Patchbay or Splitter?

[ugga]

Hi, I'm newbie in this forum, so hello to everybody.

I'm planning a PA routing and i have one question.

I want to set up system, when i can record gigs with MOTU in my computer and mix them as well with analog mixer.

So i have chosen YAMAHA 24/14FX, but it doesn't have a DIRECT OUT jack outputs and i have never used Patchbays, so here's my question:

If want to route guitar, for example, both to my live mixer and MOTU, can i use BEHRINGER ULTRAPATCH PRO PX3000 Patchbay to split my signal in 2 parts and send one to my mixer and one to my firewire interface?

Does patcbay works as well when +48V Phantom power is used in my mixer?

I hop you understood my problem and thanks to everybody who can say something about that.

[pandamonk]

Originally Posted by ugga

Hi, I'm newbie in this forum, so hello to everybody.

I'm planning a PA routing and i have one question.

I want to set up system, when i can record gigs with MOTU in my computer and mix them as well with analog mixer.

So i have chosen YAMAHA 24/14FX, but it doesn't have a DIRECT OUT jack outputs and i have never used Patchbays, so here's my question:

If want to route guitar, for example, both to my live mixer and MOTU, can i use BEHRINGER ULTRAPATCH PRO PX3000 Patchbay to split my signal in 2 parts and send one to my mixer and one to my firewire interface?

Does patcbay works as well when +48V Phantom power is used in my mixer?

I hop you understood my problem and thanks to everybody who can say something about that.

I understand, but no a patchbay doesn't work like this. Why not get a different mixer?

[technominds]

Ok, I think I understand what you are trying to achieve.

A patchbay can be used to split a signal, but your signal will not be amplified yet.. and if using phantom powered mic's they wont have any power to run them.

The best way to get 24 channels of audio back out of your mixer is to use the inserts, infact... I think that may be the ONLY way you could get 24 channels out of your desk to your MOTU.

A patchbay wont help you at all.

[ugga]

Originally Posted by pandamonk

I understand, but no a patchbay doesn't work like this. Why not get a different mixer?

My funds probably are going to be quite limited.
Can i use splitters like this? - thomann.de/gb/t-racks_split-it.htm

sorry for crapy link, but forum script says that i have to make at least 5 posts....

[pandamonk]

Actually. That mixer has insets. These can be used like direct outs. The only problem i can see, is that you may wish to use them for FX. But it may still be possible. http://www.thomann.de/gb/t-racks_split-it.htm that'd work, but inserts will too.

[technominds]

Originally Posted by pandamonk

Actually. That mixer has insets. These can be used like direct outs. The only problem i can see, is that you may wish to use them for FX. But it may still be possible.

got there first

[ugga]

Originally Posted by technominds

Ok, I think I understand what you are trying to achieve.

A patchbay can be used to split a signal, but your signal will not be amplified yet.. and if using phantom powered mic's they wont have any power to run them.

The best way to get 24 channels of audio back out of your mixer is to use the inserts, infact... I think that may be the ONLY way you could get 24 channels out of your desk to your MOTU.

A patchbay wont help you at all.

Yes, i had the same idea, so if i pick up the signal in insert, split it with patchbay and one of splitted signals goes back trough compressor, for example, and other one goes to Motu, it will work, yea?

[technominds]

Originally Posted by ugga

Yes, i had the same idea, so if i pick up the signal in insert, split it with patchbay and one of splitted signals goes back trough compressor, for example, and other one goes to Motu, it will work, yea?

Is your compressor a seperate rack compressor or is it the built in FX?

What you will need to do, for each channel;
Use an insert cable which gives you one IN jack and one OUT jack.
You would need to use a splitter (or patchbay) to split the out into two, one will feed back into the IN and the other will go to your MOTU.

As for FX, will you want to record the FX and use them live?

[gcapel]

Originally Posted by ugga

Hi, I'm newbie in this forum, so hello to everybody.

I'm planning a PA routing and i have one question.

I want to set up system, when i can record gigs with MOTU in my computer and mix them as well with analog mixer.

So i have chosen YAMAHA 24/14FX, but it doesn't have a DIRECT OUT jack outputs and i have never used Patchbays, so here's my question:

If want to route guitar, for example, both to my live mixer and MOTU, can i use BEHRINGER ULTRAPATCH PRO PX3000 Patchbay to split my signal in 2 parts and send one to my mixer and one to my firewire interface?

Does patcbay works as well when +48V Phantom power is used in my mixer?

I hop you understood my problem and thanks to everybody who can say something about that.

The mixer should have inserts. So if your using a balanced 1/4" cable, plug it in the insert jack only halfway. Plug the other end into the MOTU and there ya go.

The insert acts as a loop. You can go in and out of the signal path via tip and ring. The Ring on the mixer insert is the send, and the tip is the return. So plunging in the plug half way makes the tip the send to accomadate your MOTU.

I think I'm right on this.

EDIT.... read previous reply, I did not read the question fully. This reply will connect staight to a DAW.

[technominds]

Originally Posted by gcapel

The mixer should have inserts. So if your using a balanced 1/4" cable, plug it in the insert jack only halfway. Plug the other end into the MOTU and there ya go.

The insert acts as a loop. You can go in and out of the signal path via tip and ring. The Ring on the mixer insert is the send, and the tip is the return. So plunging in the plug half way makes the tip the send to accomadate your MOTU.

I think I'm right on this.

This is correct, but I think you lose the signal back to the mixer. You have to use a proper insert cable and split, then send back.

[ugga]

Originally Posted by technominds

Is your compressor a seperate rack compressor or is it the built in FX?

What you will need to do, for each channel;
Use an insert cable which gives you one IN jack and one OUT jack.
You would need to use a splitter (or patchbay) to split the out into two, one will feed back into the IN and the other will go to your MOTU.

As for FX, will you want to record the FX and use them live?

Yes, i'm planning to use separate compressor on each of drum channels.

It would be good to have a option to record drums with and without effects, but i'll deal with it, and of course i know what is inserts for, but somehow i didn't realized that i can do it with inserts.

So, for example, i'm going to record only bass drum, so it goes into my microphone input, then it goes out trough insert, splits in to parts. One of them goes to compressor and goes back to insert return, other one goes to motu and records nicely in cubase.

[technominds]

Originally Posted by ugga

Yes, i'm planning to use separate compressor on each of drum channels.

It would be good to have a option to record drums with and without effects, but i'll deal with it, and of course i know what is inserts for, but somehow i didn't realized that i can do it with inserts.

So, for example, i'm going to record only bass drum, so it goes into my microphone input, then it goes out trough insert, splits in to parts. One of them goes to compressor and goes back to insert return, other one goes to motu and records nicely in cubase.

Thats right, but remember that your MOTU signal will not be compressed.

Depending on the compressor, you may want to go about it this way:

Microphone > Compressor > Splitter;
Split A - Mixer
Split B - MOTU


TM

[ugga]

Originally Posted by technominds

Thats right, but remember that your MOTU signal will not be compressed.

Depending on the compressor, you may want to go about it this way:

Microphone > Compressor > Splitter;
Split A - Mixer
Split B - MOTU


TM

Yea, but that isn't a big problem to put compressor between insert and motu..

So, thank you very much.

[pandamonk]

Originally Posted by technominds

got there first

You did. haha

[Roguetitan]

active DI balanced out to mixer, unbalanced out to MOTU

[mixsit]

Doesn't the Motu have direct monitoring -go there first, line out back to the mixer?

[technominds]

Originally Posted by mixsit

Doesn't the Motu have direct monitoring -go there first, line out back to the mixer?

What about Preamps?

[Roguetitan]

Originally Posted by technominds

What about Preamps?

preamp out> MOTU out> Mixer in

[mixsit]

Originally Posted by technominds

What about Preamps?

Yeah. Not sure, but I thought he was looking at splitting the mics.

[timboZ]

What about this.


http://www.musiciansfriend.com/produ...tor?sku=154021

[Adam P]

If you already have the patchbay, do it like this:

Insert sends to the top row of the patchbay on the back. Set the patchbay channels to be half-normalled. Connect the bottom row on the back of the patchbay to the insert returns. Take lines out from the top row on the front of the patchbay to the MOTU. Since its half-normalled, inserting lines into the top row on the front won't break the connection.