A few questions about the DAV BG1

[antispatula]

I know that people here seem quite polarized about this thing and that there are plenty of topics about the BG1, but I have a few specific questions I'd like to ask.

It seems that everyone that has it is borderline fanatical about it
In fact, I was was just reading a topic over at gearslutz, and one engineer that has been recording classical for 25 years boldy stated that it was "the best mic amp in the world"

I'm looking for a really natural, realistic clean preamp for acoustic-based stuff. I want open, super-present vocals, as if you were in the room with the singer. I'm not really interested in coloration. Does this sound like a job a BG1 could do well?

I've currently got an RNP which is great, but I just heard clips of a grand piano A/B'd with an RNP and a DAV, and the difference was quite noticable. Both sounded great, but the DAV was noticably more clear and detailed. And I'm not just saying that, I did 6 blind tests, all 6 I favored the DAV.

The fact that the BG1 has no DI kind of bothers me. But to tell you the truth, all I use DI's for is bass and keyboard, and I cannot for the life of me distinguish basses on different DI's. And for keyboard all I am looking for is accurate reproduction of the onboard sounds. Can someone give me a few pointers for a cheapo DI that would do the job well for my applications.

And the DAV BG1 is 700 shipped in the US right? It's kind of irritating that there are no prices listed.

Oh and one more question. The fact that the BG1 doesn't have seperate phantom controll for each channel.....Phantom power can't hurt lets say an SM57 can it?

[Big Kenny]

Love mine, use it as often as my Phoenix and My Hardy. Very clean and plenty of gain. As clean as any I've ever used and I sold my RNP as soon as I got the DAV ( no dis on the RNP, I used that a bunch, the DAV just sounds better to me). I think they are more than $700 now but you will love it for stereo acoustic or overheads. I used it recently on a remote, recording a guys baby grand and it was really schaweet!@

[MOFO Pro]

Love the sound of mine- Should be called the BiG-One

Most people who love them, own them... and love them for the sound...

Most who hate them... do so because the build and components don't really justify the price...

But Chess finds them pretty sexy to look at...

[SonicAlbert]

I love my BG-1 as well. It has a characteristically big sound, wide deep and open.

The people that diss this preamp are the ones that haven't heard it, have never used it, or even held it in their hands. Seriously, carefully read the posts of the people knocking this preamp. You'll be able to easily see that they are talking smack about a preamp that they have never *heard* and therefore know nothing about. An opinion like that is not one to pay attention to.

It does not matter that the BG-1 or any other preamp does not have a DI. Most don't. Adding DI's to preamps as a matter of course is a relatively new phenomenon. If you need a DI ahead of the preamp, buy a DI. The only time you would do that is to run an instrument or synth through the preamp.

I'd recommend not getting a cheapo DI though. Why buy a great preamp and then stick a cheapo DI in front of it? That makes no sense to me, because the DI has a big effect on the sound as well.

Take a look at the Radial ProD2 direct box. It's not cheapo, but the quality is high. Or maybe a couple Whirlwind IMP2's, which would be a little less. I wouldn't go with anything Behringer or super cut rate though.

[antispatula]

thanks guys

I'm am totally sold on the BG1, I just listened to femail vox on the DAV, and also through a Great River and was stunned to realize the DAV sounded bigger and more detailed. (Just my opinion of course!!!!)

[antispatula]

the Whirlwind IMP2 looks very reasonably priced, I think I'll get one of those

[dickiefunk]

DAV Electronics also make the DAV BG1u which is a rackmountable version with DI.

http://www.davelectronics.com/bg1u.htm

[Big Kenny]

Originally Posted by dickiefunk

DAV Electronics also make the DAV BG1u which is a rackmountable version with DI.

http://www.davelectronics.com/bg1u.htm

POOP! OKay, everybody to the classifieds to see what I'm selling this week.

[antispatula]

yeah I looked at the rackmountable one, but I don't have a rack to begin with, so I decided against it.

Either way, I've already bought the BG1, found one on ebay for $699 last night!

[boingoman]

I don't dis the amp, just the douchebags that own them. Kind of like Macs.

[MOFO Pro]

Originally Posted by boingoman

I don't dis the amp, just the douchebags that own them. Kind of like Macs.

Hey.. I resemble that remark... but I've got a PC

[Daisy]

For about the same price, you could get a Sytek.

And that would give you four channels. Neotek's (the console that these are derived from) have been used on several of the finest-sounding records you'll hear. Very clean, detailed, fast, neutral. Pretty much what you're looking for.

Those who question the DAV are not knocking or doubting the sound quality; merely questioning the value for the money, considering what you get. Obviously, if they do sound better than a Great River or a Hardy or whatever, then they would be worth ever penny. (I would, however, be curious as to how these a/b "comparisons" were conducted; the methodology used, etc. Not sure that I would trust a stereo piano recording, when you consider that the differences between the mics themselves, as well as their relative positioning in an XY or spaced pair configuration - could have a vastly more drastic effect on track variation than what mic pre was used)

There is also another factor that should raise a red flag or two. Namely, that there are people who are very personally and emotionally invested in this product - to the point that they tend to take questioning of the product to a personal level -- as if they, themselves are being attacked, and that they need to counter with personal flames and that sort of thing. Rather than giving a positive impression of said product ... it tends to have the opposite effect on me -- and this is just a personal thing. It tends to make me somewhat suspicious and cautious when people behave like that. I mean, usually, if you like something, you just say it's good and leave it at that, rather than concerning yourself with defending it's honor and/or warding off perceived "attacks" on message boards. Just one person's impressions.

Don't forget to smile!

[MOFO Pro]

Originally Posted by Daisy

there are people who are very personally and emotionally invested in this product -

I haven't seen him post in a while...

[Daisy]

Originally Posted by MOFO Pro

I haven't seen him post in a while...

I haven't seen Big Ray around here in a while either.

It would be interesting if those who are touting it's praises ... were to post some actual comparisions, using some strict standards in terms of mic placement, level-matching, and performance consistancy.

I was impressed with the piano samples on gearslutz ... but then again, I need more than a stereo XY with preamp A on the left channel and preamp B on the right.

No matter how well-matched and controlled, the left and right channels in a stereo recording are going to sound different. They're supposed to. Again, I'm not trying to knock or doubt this DAV mic pre in any way. I would just like to hear some more definitive and useful evidence to back up some of the claims. It would be interesting and informative to hear.

[antispatula]

Yeah I understand that the DAV should probably be cheaper than what it is, but for me personally, I don't care how "wire and gain" the thing is, after comparing vocals with a Great River, Avalon, a Manley Tube preamp, and a Neve Portico, I liked the DAV by far. Not that they are "better" it was just more of what I was looking for. The Dav sounded much more open and present than the others, and that is exactly my goals.

Another thing to consider is that when one buys the preamp he is also paying for the design. A picasso painting, from a material perspective, may be worth 30 dollars, but of course will go for much more than that.

Did I just compare picasso to a dav? Am I becoming one of those dav fanatics before it has even gotten to my doorstep?!

[Daisy]

Originally Posted by antispatula

after comparing vocals with a Great River, Avalon, a Manley Tube preamp, and a Neve Portico, I liked the DAV by far.

Cool. Where can we find this comparison posted?

[Big Kenny]

Originally Posted by boingoman

I don't dis the amp, just the douchebags that own them. Kind of like Macs.

You paint with a broad stroke.....

[fraserhutch]

I like my Dav BG1 a lot. A whole lot. And yet, oddly enough, I fell compelled NOT AT ALL to post samples.

I guess that makes me a douchebag.

Gotta tell ya, though, I wish they had a rackmount version when I bought mine.

[Daisy]

Originally Posted by antispatula

.... the thing is, after comparing vocals with a Great River, Avalon, a Manley Tube preamp, and a Neve Portico, I liked the DAV by far.

Originally Posted by Daisy

Cool. Where can we find this comparison posted?

Hello? Bump? A little confused, here. Did this comparison actually take place?

[boingoman]

Originally Posted by Big Kenny

You paint with a broad stroke.....

I stroke with a broad brush.

Everybody has their things they are passionate about. The DAV from many accounts is a pretty good pre. And I don't have a take on the build quality and parts used, because I've never seen one, and really don't care anyway- I am a pretty strong believer in perceived value- if someone thinks it's worth it, to them, it is. I'd just like those people who shout the superiority of the DAV to at least try use some kind of real testing methods, and try to be at least a little objective. To me, that's the mark of a true pro, someone really committed to evaluating and comparing gear. Instead with the DAV (and of course Big Ray) things seem to get ugly quickly. Hence the comparison to Mac owners.

[Big Kenny]

It's just a pre I like, I'm not passionate about it, just a piece of gear.

[fraserhutch]

Originally Posted by Big Kenny

It's just a pre I like, I'm not passionate about it, just a piece of gear.

Same here. It's not my only pre, but I like eet fer what it duz.

[antispatula]

Originally Posted by Daisy

Cool. Where can we find this comparison posted?

sure thing, found samples here. One slighly misleading thing is that some samples are slightly louder than others, so what I did was run them through REAPER and made them all the same level.

The only sample that I like on the same level as the DAV is perhaps the
UA 610.

[MOFO Pro]

The BG-1 sounds like more than it costs, but it costs more than it should...

That about wraps it up...

[Daisy]

In that particular test, I think it does really well.

For the most part, it's a lot different than most of the others in the lineup ... in the sense that it's one of only a few that isn't using the tubes or transformers. And along with the millenia and the True, the whole idea is the transparency and accuracy thing.

It does seem to do pretty well in that test, though. Very different from the others in the group.