Randy Kline's (60's Guy) - WINTER

[Llarion]

FINALLY!!!

So, about 9 months ago, Randy sent me some scratch guitar and other tracks to flesh out his beautiful song Winter. I've been fussing with it through 2 arrangements. 2 computer rebuilds, one recordgin studio rebuild, and now one drum set reskin.

I re-tracked the drums a couple of days ago, and Rami's solos are finally integrated.

60's Guy - 5 guitar parts, vocal
Me - Drums, Bass, 2 keyboard parts, extra percussion
RAMI - two searing guitar solos...

Randy, so sorry for the long delays; but this song is gorgeous, and I wanted it to be just right.

Randy Kline - Winter

[Anfontan]

It turned out great-whatever the wait was-it was worth it. I love how is all builds up so nicely-good crescendo in the electric lead-and the mellow gut string part following it was exceptional as well!

[true-eurt]

It is a beautiful song.

You guys all did a wonderful job on it....and of course the guitar solos seared right through my heart. Kudos Rami!!

Some really good songwriting Randy. Your voice has that smooth feel to it. 5 guitar parts...niiiiice

Phil...you prove that taking your time is worth it. Great job on all your parts and those added percussion parts are like icing on a cake.


Perhaps bring the vocals out just a tad?

[RAMI]

Hey Phil, thanx for putting this up. Sounds great.

You do realise that you offset the first solo by a few beats, right? It starts 2 or 3 beats too early, and is off for the whole part until the heavier guitar solo comes in. Might be deliberate, but it threw me off when I heard it.

[Oancient1]

Well done Phil, and kudos to Randy as writer and all who had a hand in the very impressive arrangement.

Tom

[Llarion]

Originally Posted by RAMI

Hey Phil, thanx for putting this up. Sounds great.

You do realise that you offset the first solo by a few beats, right? It starts 2 or 3 beats too early, and is off for the whole part until the heavier guitar solo comes in. Might be deliberate, but it threw me off when I heard it.

Well, actually, I didn't know, because the segments you sent didn't have any time cues; I tried to place it where it made the most sense, but I was 99% certain I had that first one wrong. (the 2nd one was self evident because of the chord progression follow you did) If you tell me how many beats past where I have it that it's supposed to be; I'll happily move it so it sounds like you intended... (or better, send me a scratch mix with your placement... )

True,

Thanks very much, and yeah, I was thinking about that, but I wanted to get some other ears on it; I've played it like 400 times over the last 5 days, so I'm a little cluttered...

Anfotan and Oancient1, thanks very much.. I hope Randy likes it!!

[elcholo]

Excellent song Phil/60's Guy/Rami...very nice feel. I love the bass...

[RAMI]

Originally Posted by Llarion

Well, actually, I didn't know, because the segments you sent didn't have any time cues;

Really??? I'm surprised the WAV files didn't just line up. I've never had that problem before.

I think the easiest way to put it would be that the first note of the first solo should start on the "ONE" of the next bar. So, it's probably 2 or 3 beats early right now.

[Llarion]

Oh, yuk, this SO did not pass the car test... The subsonics are massive. Ick. Thanks Rami, I'll try lining it back up, I have to remix the drums anyway...

[60's guy]

Originally Posted by Llarion

Oh, yuk, this SO did not pass the car test... The subsonics are massive. Ick. Thanks Rami, I'll try lining it back up, I have to remix the drums anyway...

Phil,

Has it really been 9 months and we're no longer pregnant?

The subsonics are indeed massive and there was a slight amount of clipping. I hit it with an overall 3dB reduction and a parametric reduction at 80 Hz with a very wide Q which seemed to smooth things out fairly nicely.

I understand what Rami was saying about the guitar solos being a bit misaligned but I think the timing works just fine! There's nothing wrong with playing slightly ahead of or behind. Bill Wyman played bass slightly behind for the Stones and Clapton even noted that his guitar solo on Crossroads was a single beat ahead.

Ah Ha! My significant other walked in a few moments ago and I had her listen to Rami's solos. She agreed with me. Go figure! THAT RARELY HAPPENS!

Nonetheless, you should align it to Rami's satisfaction.

Rami,

I'm in awe. You nailed the emotion perfectly! The guitar tones are great!

I anticipated no less of you.

[Nakatira]

Sweet stuff guys, Kudos To all involved.

Your a mean rythmsection Llarion

60`s; Very nice tune man, and good vox as well as the Guitars (Nice mood).

Rami; Damn you Did some great work on those solo`s, very expressive.

Thanks for sharing guys

[Rokket]

When are you going to put up the remix so I can download it?

[Llarion]

Originally Posted by Rokket

When are you going to put up the remix so I can download it?

I'm starting on it right now.

[Llarion]

Originally Posted by 60's guy

Phil,

Has it really been 9 months and we're no longer pregnant?

The subsonics are indeed massive and there was a slight amount of clipping. I hit it with an overall 3dB reduction and a parametric reduction at 80 Hz with a very wide Q which seemed to smooth things out fairly nicely.

I understand what Rami was saying about the guitar solos being a bit misaligned but I think the timing works just fine! There's nothing wrong with playing slightly ahead of or behind. Bill Wyman played bass slightly behind for the Stones and Clapton even noted that his guitar solo on Crossroads was a single beat ahead.

Ah Ha! My significant other walked in a few moments ago and I had her listen to Rami's solos. She agreed with me. Go figure! THAT RARELY HAPPENS!

Nonetheless, you should align it to Rami's satisfaction.

Rami,

I'm in awe. You nailed the emotion perfectly! The guitar tones are great!

I anticipated no less of you.

Well, it wasn't a few hundredths behind, I was TWO FULL BEATS behind, apparently..

No worries, I'm redoing...

[Rokket]

Originally Posted by Llarion

Well, it wasn't a few hundredths behind, I was TWO FULL BEATS behind, apparently..

No worries, I'm redoing...

Kewl!!!!!!!!!!!

[60's guy]

Originally Posted by Llarion

Well, it wasn't a few hundredths behind, I was TWO FULL BEATS behind, apparently..

No worries, I'm redoing...

Rami's opinion of the timing issue aside......like I said earlier.....it was awesome of both of you and Rami to take the time to do this.

I appreciate it more than both of you may ever know.

I'd like you to email me a wave file, Phil, when the mix is finalized!

[Llarion]

Originally Posted by 60's guy

Rami's opinion of the timing issue aside......like I said earlier.....it was awesome of both of you and Rami to take the time to do this.

I appreciate it more than both of you may ever know.

I'd like you to email me a wave file, Phil, when the mix is finalized!

I'll do better than that, trust me.

[60's guy]

Originally Posted by Llarion

I'll do better than that, trust me.

I knew that!

[Llarion]

OK, here's tonight's mix; with Rami's solo slid to where I think it's supposed to be. It might have to be one hald-beat later, so Rami, I need your input...

But, the drums are MUCH clearer, as is the bass... no more 30Hz wallow.

http://www.llarion.com/winter103007.mp3

[Llarion]

...Since I kinda use you as a benchmark for drum recording, I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on how I got them dialed in here; especially in terms of nuance, imaging, etc... I think it's worlds better than I've ever had, but I'm curious as to how you think I'm doing in the learning process...

[DavidK]

Very nice all the way around. Good song, good playing. The only nit I have is with the keys, on these headphones the high bell sounds are very piercing and almost painful. Other than that, everything is gelling nicely.

[Rokket]

I just downloaded it for the second time. No nits from me! This is a beautiful song.




Someone should take up the reins of the HR.com compilation CD. This song should definitely go on it...

I'd do it, but I don't even have time to wipe my ass with both hands nowadays...

[Dogman]

Nice sounds....

[andyhix]

This sounds really good guys. For the life of me, though, I can't tell the difference in the lead guitar placement between the two versions. I think that was just a story you guys made up so that turds like me would listen to the song an extra few times, thereby getting it firmly stuck in my head.

Anyway, I like pretty much everything about it. Nice (albiet heavy) use of reverb. I like the little buzzy string noise on the bass fills. Cool chord progression too. What sorta chord* is it right prior to "Wish it were winter..." ? Actually I'd be curious on the whole chord prog. It's quite a bit different than what I do, so I'd be interested.

Also, theres a little bell/organ/synth/whateveritis fill right after the aforementioned chord* about 2/3 of the way through the song. VERY cool.

[Llarion]

Originally Posted by andyhix

This sounds really good guys. For the life of me, though, I can't tell the difference in the lead guitar placement between the two versions. I think that was just a story you guys made up so that turds like me would listen to the song an extra few times, thereby getting it firmly stuck in my head.

Anyway, I like pretty much everything about it. Nice (albiet heavy) use of reverb. I like the little buzzy string noise on the bass fills. Cool chord progression too. What sorta chord* is it right prior to "Wish it were winter..." ? Actually I'd be curious on the whole chord prog. It's quite a bit different than what I do, so I'd be interested.

Also, theres a little bell/organ/synth/whateveritis fill right after the aforementioned chord* about 2/3 of the way through the song. VERY cool.

I think the progression you're referring to is Randy's inventive substitution of minor 7th chords instead of major chords for the IV and V chords... Instead of Bb to C7 to F, it's Bbm7 to Cm7 to F (and the F suspends first)..


I still have to nudge that first solo back another half beat, it turns out, (I'd moved it two full beats..) and I'm still not 100% happy with the bottom end. I might dry it out a little, too. Your ear gets saturated after repeated listens, and you lose nuance when mixing, ya know?

(And yeah, I may rein in those bells a little, David...)