Sample of piano...

[kgirl72]

Hi,

this is really for the folks talking to me over in the recording technique forums, but it you have any insight on the perfect way to mic piano, I'm sure having a hard time.

I imagine the levels came out really low. I didn't want to clip the multitrack, which seems to be cliphappy. Edit: I normalized so it would bring it up.

I have various mics, and don't know what to use where, and have on order a stereo pair of some ridiculously inexpensive mics that had great soundclips, so hopefully they'll give me the sound I'm looking for. But for now, everything I've tried sounds similar to me. If you know the magic touch for an old Steinway upright grand, I'd love to hear it!

This particular clip has an NTK in FRONT of the lower strings, fairly close, and a Studio Projects T3 micing the soundboard on back, at the high strings, again, pretty close, as in inches. I know I could have turned it up more. I can't see the meters when I'm playing. Haha.

I've only heard this through the headphones on the multitrack, so I really don't know WHAT it sounds like. I'll try to burn it onto my mp3 player, and listen on my stereo, if I can figure out how to do that. I guess I could burn a disc, duh. Okay I've talked way too much.

So, here it be.
http://www.kfrosh.com/mixed.mp3

[Vagodeoz]

Sounds great! However a little lacking of bright for my taste, I would try boosting the highs.
And (at least IMO) has too much background noise. I'm not sure if it's the hammers that make that background noise in every note, or something else, but you should try figuring out, and trying to reduce it as much as you can, for example moving the mikes further from the hammers, or if they are cardioid (directional) try to point the back of it to your hammers, so you will get better rejection of unwanted sounds (that is why cardiods were made). Also there is a lot of hiss.
I hope you don't mind, I took the liberty of downloading it and messing up with it a little bit A little EQ and little compression to get more overall volume and make it brigher.
Tell me what you think about it. Here it goes.
Keep experimenting, and recording, and posting samples!

[Dogman]

To me, it sounds like you captured the basics pretty well....might need some tweaking to fit whatever you intend, but the sound is good. You should be able to work with this.

[kgirl72]

Well, thanks. The softsynths sound so much better on my website. I would like to use my piano more though. Actually, I'm wanting to get this piano sounding like them, but I don't think it's gonna happen. Now, do these tracks sound stereo to you? Because I tried to make them stereo.

[BushmasterM4]

I hope this helps you. Link as to how to mic various pianos. Im sort of teaching myself how to play, but Im using a Baby Grand in a box. Anyway here is the link.

http://www.saecollege.de/reference_m...ages/Piano.htm

[kgirl72]

Thanks bushmaster, it did help. Unfortunately, during this, I've had one shockmount fall apart, so there's one mic out. Then the mic cord on the NTK shocked the hell out of me then fell apart. I know, I should turn my shit off. Then I realized somehow I had the NTK plugged into the SP box, and vice versa. Could explain the shocking I got.

Vagodeoz...thanks a lot for putting up a clip for me. It does sound better, and I will figure out what that sound is. But for now, I'm going to find a new cord for the NTK and a new shockmount for my T3.

Damn, who knew it'd be that hard.

[Vagodeoz]

I also used the plug-in Waves X-Noise to reduce the hiss, but it's always best to fight the problem at it's source

[kgirl72]

Yeah, probably a combo of my cheapo Peavy mixer--I can't imagine the bugger has good mic preamps, and the mrs-8. I plugged them into the dmp-3 instead. I have an RNP too, but I left it at my other studio place.

I can't hear the buzz and hiss though. I bet listening through my monitors would help. My signal to noise ratio on that particular recording was not so great. You could barely see the wavs so I normalized it, which brought up the hiss sound. Dunno, I'll keep working on it.

Thanks all,
K.

[kgirl72]

And no, I'd rather not have to use a software noise reducer.

Piano sounds good. Maybe a little low-fi but still sounds natural. I'd personally rather hear the real piano more than some soft synths no matter how good they sound.

[Vagodeoz]

Originally Posted by kgirl72

And no, I'd rather not have to use a software noise reducer.

Of course, no one does, that is why I told you to find it at it's source
I was recording some stuff yesterday to my portastudio 414 mkII through my tube pre-amp, I gave it some gain and a little of gain on my 414 and a lot of hiss appeared... So I gave the tube amp full gain, and the output as high as possible without clipping (and the 414 preamp to zero). It did help a lot with the hiss.
Since you are making yourself a mike aresenal, you should consider some nice pre-amps as a future investment.
Good luck!

[apl]

Tell us about your pie-anner.

[kgirl72]

My preamps:
MAudio DMP3
RNP
Studio Projects
old peavey mixer with 10 channels.

My piano is an old (very old) steinway upright grand.

Danny, I'm hoping to go from lo-fi to hi-fi, lol. I don't know that I can with this zoom mrs-8. It only records at 16 bit, and has a little of its own noise.

My REAL studio is at my boyfriends'. Although I have to carry around some mics and stands at times.

[kgirl72]

I've been using the dmp-3 mostly, but that recording could have been from the mixer.

[SSL6000]

It sounds OK. Maybe play around with the mic locations.
You could play while your boyfriend adjusts the mics to a nice spot.
There are quite a few positions you guys can do it. LoL.

[apl]

Originally Posted by kgirl72

My piano is an old (very old) steinway upright grand.

That sounds oxymoronic.

You need an Eesti piano.

http://www.estoniapiano.com/index.php?page=75

[kgirl72]

Yeah, ok. I'll get right on that.

[BentRabbit]

I'm liking what you have... Again tho, maybe just a little bit brighter but it sounds full...

Couldn't really tell much on a stereo field, but I'm at work so it prolly wouldn't come across too well anyway...

Our house came with an antique upright I keep meaning to put some mics on one day... If only I knew how to play it lol

Keep us posted on your progress and techniques

[kgirl72]

I got some new mics in the mail, from naiant studios, called the MSH-1 and they were like $25 apiece plus shipping (which is very reasonable). I believe one of our members makes them. I can't wait to try them as I liked the piano sample I heard. I'll try to brighten it up a bit. I just want to go home so I can try them out!

I will keep everyone posted.

Originally Posted by kgirl72

I got some new mics in the mail, from naiant studios, called the MSH-1 and they were like $25 apiece plus shipping (which is very reasonable). I believe one of our members makes them. I can't wait to try them as I liked the piano sample I heard. I'll try to brighten it up a bit. I just want to go home so I can try them out!

I will keep everyone posted.

Those mics are excellent and will give you a very accurate recording of how the piano sounds. Good, but unforgiving so try & get placement correct.

Also, room treatment would be a huge improvement with the lo-fi quality especially since they're omni mics, but I think a piano is more forgiving with room sound and can make it sound more natural/"classic" sounding for lack of a better term.

But you should definitely get a much brighter-sounding recording using the mics compared to this one.

[kgirl72]

I don't understand. How close do you suggest? Where? I put the panel back on on the bottom and mic'd it probably about a foot away. One near the treble, one near the bass. should they be closer? Do I point them away from the bass and treble, so they're facing each other basically? I haven't tried the soundboard yet. I actually like these little mics. Frankly, I don't hear much difference between my first file and this one. My ears suck though.

[kgirl72]

I'm not sure what you mean. On this one, I placed the two mics about a foot from the strings, and more than 3 feet from each other. I faced them both inward. I put the panel back on on the bottom strings...I had it off for the first recording. I like these little mics. Should I be placing them further out, or closer in? There's so much to learn. I frankly can't tell much difference between this and the other.

www.kfrosh.com/new_attempt.mp3

ps. lots of noise in the beginning. I forgot to slide the track over, and I'm using Reaper, when I'm used to Sonar in my studio. That rig is much nicer than this one. I'm budgeting this stuff.

[XLR]

Can't listen right now but...

My experience is that very close mic'ing of acoustic instruments gets artificial sounding results. I usually prefer to mic from a few feet away.

Try the "finger in one ear method" of mic placement: Yeah, it's a real technique and it really works well. Have someone else play your piano while you walk around the room with one of your ears plugged, so you hear the sound like a mic does. Find the best sounding spot in the room. It might be a foot off the floor. It might be a foot from the ceiling. It might be 3 ft away from the piano, or 10 ft away. Take a long time to find the spot. A few inches difference in placement can make or break the sound quality.

Then put a mic exactly where your ear was, with the matching mic a foot or so away, equidistant from the source (classic spaced omni configuration).

[Vagodeoz]

Sounds great. A lot better than the last one.

One tip about mixing room tracks in general: Compress the hell out of it!! With almost no dynamics at all, almost pure sustain (which is the main porpuse of the room). You get the definition by close miking and the sustain from the room

[kgirl72]

Yeah, I have no compressor here, and don't know how to use reaper. Haha. I do want more volume. Compression is probably the key.