external bouncing

[Fuzion]

Hi,
I have heard about external bouncing and it has really piqued my interest. I have a tascam 424 original and I don't really want to degrade the tracks by bouncing internally but externally there is no sound degradation. If anyone would take the time I would greatly appreciate if you could explain the process of external bouncing to me and give me any tips and hints on the way. I have the gist of it but I want to know everyone. If anyone could please help me out it would be greatly appreciated. THanks

[regebro]

Most of the sound degradation in bouncing is in the tape itself, so I don't see how bouncing externally would make any difference.

[Loren Morehouse]

Unless you wanted a stereo image of those tracks. Then you'd have to external bounce.

[lazyboy]

Fuzion:

I don't really know why, perhaps its the less than stellar electronics in the tascam porta's, but mixing 4 tracks to computer and sending them back onto another tape either as mono or stereo has always managed to sound more clear and defined to me than an internal bounce. Its not so much that there is no sound degradation, its more useful for its flexibility. I suggest giving it a shot.

[regebro]

Originally posted by Loren Morehouse
Unless you wanted a stereo image of those tracks. Then you'd have to external bounce.

Oh, I get it, with "external bounce" you actually mean mixing to ANOTHER DESTINATION. I though it meant using an external mixer.

Well, yes, using an external destination when making a "submix" (I wouldn't really call it bouncing at all in that case, buts thats just me) has some good side-effects. For example, you can mix four sources instead of three. You can mix to stereo, and then add two tracks to make a final mix, instead of mixing to mono, and adding three tracks.

A computer with a good sound card is an excellent destination to mix to. But in that case, maybe n-track would work well, and you won't have to use the 4-track at all?

Years ago we shared a rehearsal room with another band, so we had two 4-tracks. I synced the drum-machine to our Yamaha MT?X, and recorded bass + Rhodes + Guitar on the remaining three tracks. I mixed that to stereo on the other 4-track, and then recorded main and backing vocals on the remaining tracks. I got what I at that time thought was excellent results.

[rjbutchko]

I don't understand why differences in tape speed between the two decks would even be an issue. I wouldn't even consider putting the tape with my mixed down tracks back into the tascam. Why not just send the four tracks to the mixdown deck, and use the tape ins to bring them back for overdubbing? Just turn off the noise reduction, or you'll get a muffeled track.

[regebro]

If you do that you get another tape generation, which is why you don't want to do it. But sure, if you don't have the same noise reduction so you have to turn it off, your solution is probably better.

Just turn off the noise reduction, or you'll get a muffeled track.

No, in the solution you describe that should not happen, unless your noise reduction is broken.

(My recommendation would actually be: Simplyfy the arrangements until you can get everything down on 4 tracks. )

[muzeman]

Fuzion,
I also have a 424 and have had good sucess bouncing tracks externaly to either 2 track minidisc or cd burner.
If you use a cd burner,you don't have to finalize it to play it back,but you have to play it back with the same burner.

I compile 4 rythym tracks,bounce them to either minidisc or cd,and bring them back to 2 tracks on the Tascam.
Works well for me.

Also I wouldn't be to concerned about 1st generation bounces,signal loss is usually not to bad.
I would also recommend using the DBX all the time,it really helps with noise reduction.

Hope this helps,
Pete

[getrythm]

I agree with museman. I've been sub-mixing from my 414 to MD and back again. Results are pretty clean.

[SPINSTERWUN]

I use to do the same thing as getrythm and muzeman, except I would use a VCR.

.

[edgarderbylive]

i used to use a 424 mkIII.....and i used a cdrw to do my "submixes"....very clear and much less "squashed" sounding as opposed to bouncing tracks internally....and i could send that bounce back to the 424 on one track and create a "stereo" image by using the 424s tape out into another channel (the mkIII had an 8channel mixer) and use eq and panning(hard left and right) to fool the listener into hearing the bounce in stereo....very HI-FI sounding....and it left me 3 more tracks to work with...I was very very shocked at the hi quality of the sound of these tapes...i use adats too and the 424 (or any other multitrack) when used properly sounds pretty damn close to pro stuff.......the only complaints are the signal level (pro studios have that hot +4 dBm signal) and track lack.....but other than that....you can do some killler stuff with a 424 and digital recorder (DAT CDR or a computer) to do external bouncing.....

[DaveO]

I used a VCR for external mixdowns while I was still using my 414 and got much better results than I got doing internal bounces. I considered buying a MD recorder for external bounces but a) was warned that sound quality might suffer because of the compression used in that format and b) I was buying a PC anyway so I just started recording there.

I agree with regebro. If a PC will enter the picture at all, do your recording there unless you need the portability of your 424. Of course, you could always record the tracks requiring portability on the 424 and then import them into your PC to finish the job. I've done that on occasion.

His suggestion about n-Track is a good one - I use it and like it. You could also try Pro Tools Free, which has the advantages of being free and is also Pro Tools (less of a learning curve if you go big time and start using a real version of Pro Tools). The disadvantage is you only get a limited number of tracks (8 I think). n-Track has no built-in limits so your PC will dictate the limits for you.

[Buffalo Bob]

Cakewalk has a new program out called Music Creator. Much more stable than N-Track (which I also use) and you get 8 tracks of audio for $50.

Bob

[F_cksia]

N-track? Use Cool Edit for ext. bouncing.
I do it that way and it's excellent.
Just visit www.syntrillium.com for a demo of Cool Edit 2000,
then www.astalavista.com for a crack, and it costs you nothing, while you've got the WHOLE version of this great program.

[DaveO]

Just to clarify my response. I wasn't suggesting n-Track as an "external bouncing" application. I suggested that as an inexpensive way to get a good piece of multitracking software if he goes the PC route. In other words, I didn't think it made sense to do external bounces to a PC and then tracnsfer the submix back to a 4-track. If a PC enters the picture at all I think it makes a lot of sense to just do all the recording there.

Also, I'm not a big fan of using cracked software - that's simply theft in my book. I worked for 10 years as a software engineer and know very well the amount of effort it takes to write good software. I'm not sure what you do for a living, but I doubt you'd be happy to not get paid for doing it.

Don't like the right-versus-wrong rationale? How about putting a selfish spin on it. If enough people stop buying the software beacuse they get cracked versions then no one is paying the companies/people writing all that great software you're stealing. If they can't make enough to stay in business then guess what - YOU'RE out of luck. No more upgrades, no more new features, etc. What I like about n-Track is that it's cheap enough for most people to afford AND it's a fine piece of software. It's worth my $35 to help make sure it survives.