Advising young guitarist?

[Dani Pace]

I recently had a young (16 year old) guitarist ask me for advice, I did the best I could to give him an answer but it may not have been good enough. Naturaly I thought of you guys and figure I might get some ideas to pass along. His question is, "How do you know when you (your band) is ready to go out and play in public?" I've been in quite a few bands over the years and I don't think any of them were ever really "ready" but we went out and played anyway and somehow managed to pull off the gigs. I'd like to be able to pass along some solid advice so help me out with this one guys. Thanks in advance.

[legionserial]

When you can play your tunes through without fucking them up. Ever.

[Greg_L]

You're ready when you're ready. If you feel comfortable with playing live after 2 practices, then do it. Also, how do you define "ready" in regard to a whole band? Knowing the songs? Mentally ready? If you know the songs, then go play them if you want to. If you're mentally at ease with maybe screwing up live, having noone like you, and playing to empty rooms, then go play. People make too big a deal about playing live at the local smalltime level. Just do it for fun. Noone listening really cares. Most people are just there to drink and hang out and most likely will not remember any of the bands the next day. If you happen to develop a small following, then you have to play even less to keep from burning them out. Man, playing live sucks!

[Lt. Bob]

Originally Posted by Greg_L

You're ready when you're ready. If you feel comfortable with playing live after 2 practices, then do it. Also, how do you define "ready" in regard to a whole band? Knowing the songs? Mentally ready? If you know the songs, then go play them if you want to. If you're mentally at ease with maybe screwing up live, having noone like you, and playing to empty rooms, then go play. People make too big a deal about playing live at the local smalltime level. Just do it for fun. Noone listening really cares. Most people are just there to drink and hang out and most likely will not remember any of the bands the next day. If you happen to develop a small following, then you have to play even less to keep from burning them out. Man, playing live sucks!

Ditto except for the playing live sucks thing ... lol
After 40 years of playing 5 to 7 gigs a week you'd think I would be tired of it but I still love it as much as ever so it can be fun if you relax and just enjoy it as greg says.
But it is true that on a local level, audiences don't have a clue ..... they want you to sound decent and if you carry yourself with self confidence, they'll never notice your screw ups.
If you have enough songs and want to play live, then it's time.

[Greg_L]

No, I really do enjoy it. I don't know why though. I just do. My band plays live about twice a month. Some shows are good, some are bad. Some pay really well, some don't. They always end up being fun though. It's a good feeling. After a show, people want to talk to you. I don't know why, and they rarely have anything worthwhile to say, but playing live has a certain aura about it. I think it's maybe a little bit of envy. I think fans of live music want to have the guts or ability to play live. They're lacking one or the other, so they don't. Being a "musician" you have to have the balls to get up there and do your thing and accept whatever happens. Playing a song sitting on your bed is one thing, doing it under the lights with people watching is something else. You expose yourself. You're vulnerable. You're also the fucking man. You're there and the people are watching you. You have their attention - not vice-versa. That puts you in charge. If people don't clap or cheer loud enough, you tell them to wake the fuck up. If people start moving around, you tell them to settle the fuck down. They listen. The crowd will do what you say. They always do. I guess that's why I like playing live. I get to control people.

[Lt. Bob]

Originally Posted by Greg_L

No, I really do enjoy it. I don't know why though. I just do. My band plays live about twice a month. Some shows are good, some are bad. Some pay really well, some don't. They always end up being fun though. It's a good feeling. After a show, people want to talk to you. I don't know why, and they rarely have anything worthwhile to say, but playing live has a certain aura about it. I think it's maybe a little bit of envy. I think fans of live music want to have the guts or ability to play live. They're lacking one or the other, so they don't. Being a "musician" you have to have the balls to get up there and do your thing and accept whatever happens. Playing a song sitting on your bed is one thing, doing it under the lights with people watching is something else. You expose yourself. You're vulnerable. You're also the fucking man. You're there and the people are watching you. You have their attention - not vice-versa. That puts you in charge. If people don't clap or cheer loud enough, you tell them to wake the fuck up. If people start moving around, you tell them to settle the fuck down. They listen. The crowd will do what you say. They always do. I guess that's why I like playing live. I get to control people.

That's a pretty good description of the feeling of playing live.
lol .... it's true ... people do want to come up and talk to you and they rarely have anything unexpected to say. It's always, "Uncle Johnny used to play .... he was really good .... I've always wished I hadn't quit in high school" ..... that sort of thing.
But after awhile you come to understand that they're trying to communicate that you've touched them in some fashion but they're not used to talking in such a context so they don't really know what to say.
I've known many musicians that get tired of it but I never do (good thing since I gotta eat!) ..... when you're playing and you look out and see some person and you can tell that they're really focused and into what you're doing .... that's a pretty cool feeling.
Hope I get to see you play sometime.

And Dani ..... Greg and I agree ...... tell em we want their gigs!

[travelin travis]

it doesn't even matter if you suck. just get on with it, have some fun, and learn from your mistakes.

[Sirnothingness]

You're ready when you can play "The final countdown" and sound like a bunch of drunk Filipinos.

[metalhead28]

Just tell him to stuff his trousers and give the eye to all the fat chicks.

[Greg_L]

Originally Posted by metalhead28

Just tell him to stuff his trousers and give the eye to all the fat chicks.

Lol. I had to play bass in my band for one show. I'm normally the drummer, and our regular bassist couldn't make the show. It was a good paying gig, so we got another guy that we know to fill in on drums. Anyway, I rocked the bass and the fat chicks loved me. There was like 7 fatties right up to the stage in front of me. I don't know if thats good or bad.

[cusebassman]

Originally Posted by Greg_L

Lol. I had to play bass in my band for one show. I'm normally the drummer, and our regular bassist couldn't make the show. It was a good paying gig, so we got another guy that we know to fill in on drums. Anyway, I rocked the bass and the fat chicks loved me. There was like 7 fatties right up to the stage in front of me. I don't know if thats good or bad.

It is if ya like the plumpers...

Folk music tends not to get ya the women, on the other hand I suppose the fatties would fuck a folk player even if they didn't know he played... they tend to be desperate.

[metalhead28]

I was the guitarist, and it was usually between me and the singer as to who got the most appreciation from the fat chicks. It was usually me because I would make all sorts of rude gestures with my guitar and occasionally I would throw down a righteous guitar / crotch thrust and that always got 'em.

You have to be careful because sometimes they'll flash you. I got flashed one time by a monstrous pachyderm of a woman, and it took me a while to get over it.

[travelin travis]

Originally Posted by metalhead28

Just tell him to stuff his trousers and give the eye to all the fat chicks.

funny you should say that. i try to avoid eye contact with the fat chicks but i've managed to attract every fucking one of them. oh well. if you really need some tang.....

[maestro_dmc]

Originally Posted by legionserial

When you can play your tunes through without fucking them up. Ever.

Or at least if you can play your tunes all the way through without anyone noticing you're *&^%ing them up.

Tell him to not only have fun up there, but LOOK like your having fun up there. It's uncomfortable to watch people struggle along, people don't enjoy it.

When the band has fun the audience has fun. It feeds back and forth.

[mikeh]

Like Lt Bob I've been gigging for 40 years (more bands than I can count).

If a band really wants to gig - as soon as they are reasonably comfortable that they "know" enough material to cover the gig (with limited repeating songs) - then, they are ready.

I've been in bands that had 2 sets of material for a 4 set gig - that may be an extreme, but a few extended solos and a white lie that certain songs were requested again adds another set real easy.

No matter how much a band rehearses, the first few gigs will have mistakes - I don't care how seasoned or how talented the players may be - there will be mistakes. As long as the players don't freak out and act like there were mistakes - no one in the crowd cares. People in local bars are there to party and for most people, the band is nothing more than background music. As long as the band looks like it's haveing fun, the people don't care about a few mistakes. The small mistakes are not even noticed and the big mistakes - sometimes it best simply to have fun with it. (My attitude has always been, the people in the crowd are not musicians and don't care how precise anyone plays and if anyone in the crowd is a hot player - why are they in the crowd and not gigging?)

[Greg_L]

Yeah, to me, the most important thing is to not stop if you make a mistake. Just play through it. The crowd won't notice unless they really know your material. But if you just stop and look at eachother like a bunch of goons, then it's pretty obvious what happened.

And another thing - just my opinion - don't fuck around. If people came to see you, then they came to hear music. Have fun with it, but mean business. Act like a pro. If you have to re-tune during the set, don't do it with the amp wide open. Don't dick around on the drums between songs. Don't tell stupid jokes just because you have a mic in front of you. And this is totally subjective, but if you play rock music, don't turn your back to the crowd. They don't want to see your sweaty ass. Don't physically "groove" with the drummer or stare at your amp. If you can't "lock in" with eachother without having to face eachother, then maybe you're not ready. Face the crowd and give them a sonic and visual assault. Act like you know what you're doing, even if you don't. I play the drums in a rock band, and I never see my bandmates faces. I don't want to. I see their backs as they face forward and pound the crowds eardrums. That's how it should be.

[cusebassman]

So you like staring at other guys' asses. Gotcha

I think that one point is a good one - do not stop playing, unless you absolutely have to. If one musician has to regroup, tell them this beforehand, that they should do so, and just get on with things. I played in a small band in high school that had (for a short time) an utterly attrocious bass player. His main problem? When he lost time with the group, even if he found it again, he would try to "catch up" by playing all the notes he had missed really fast and out of sync, and would then fall right back out of time because he was then playing too FAST. It sounded awful, and he just didn't understand what we were saying when we explained what he was doing.

[Greg_L]

Originally Posted by cusebassman

So you like staring at other guys' asses. Gotcha

.

Yes!

[ggunn]

You've gotta be bad before you can be good. You're going to be bad when you first start, so just get out there and get the bad part over with. But good or bad, have fun with it every time or it's just not worth it.

[andyhix]

For someone just starting out, especially a youngster, I definitely lean towards the "just have fun" side rather than the "play your songs perfectly" side. Honestly, if I waited until that threshold, I still wouldn't have ever played any gigs.

That said, it's about having fun, conveying that fun (important), not grimmacing when you flub a note (I still do this, and then I immediately get pissed at myself for it, and start shaking my head, making it worse), having a plan for when string breaks, or you totally flake out and forget the words, or someone whips it out and starts wizzing on the stage, etc.

Really, it's a bit of a cliff and you just need to jump at some point. Ideally, you don't totally suck, though.

Other consideration - what are the other local bands doing? Do you think you can be at least somewhere close (talent/performance-wise)? Or are you miles behind them?

[PhiloBeddoe]

Originally Posted by Dani Pace

I recently had a young (16 year old) guitarist ask me for advice, I did the best I could to give him an answer but it may not have been good enough. Naturaly I thought of you guys and figure I might get some ideas to pass along. His question is, "How do you know when you (your band) is ready to go out and play in public?"

I think I played my first gig at age 14 and the only criteria I remember was having enough songs. I don't remember contemplating it at all as the progression was pretty natural. You play in front of a few friends, then a few more, then a back yard party, then a paying gig and so on.

Now if you're a little more serious and older, then you need a little more serious approach but I assume we're not talking about that.

[cusebassman]

Originally Posted by ggunn

You've gotta be bad before you can be good. You're going to be bad when you first start, so just get out there and get the bad part over with. But good or bad, have fun with it every time or it's just not worth it.

Hell, I'm still not that good at live performance, and I've been playing guitar for 8+ years You have to get out and do it often - I don't gig all that much, so I go right back to being rusty after every show. Then 6 months passes, I get the itch, then I do it and make 1,000 mistakes that no one but me notices anyway, but every last one of them annoys the Hell of me... They are especially obvious since I record most every show I play

Originally Posted by andyhix

someone whips it out and starts wizzing on the stage

[mikeh]

Originally Posted by ggunn

You've gotta be bad before you can be good. You're going to be bad when you first start, so just get out there and get the bad part over with. But good or bad, have fun with it every time or it's just not worth it.

This hits it right on the head.

[XLR]

bump.












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[Dani Pace]

Thanks guys, I want my young guitarist to read this. I told him a lot of the same things (not the someone pissing on stage bit) but i think he just needs to hear it from someone else. I've been playing out since i was 14 (omg that was 40 years ago) for crowds that ranged from a handfull of people to several thousand. I have to say I still do it because its fun and I love it, I never made a lot of money but I sure met some interesting people.