New to recording...and i'm a metalhead.

[StenTheAwesome]

Hey everyone I'm new here and my roommate and I just starting getting into recording and we're having a little trouble getting a recording that doesn't well...really suck, but more on that in a bit.

Alright so i guess i'll start off with what we are working with and since i have no idea what i should say i'll just list pretty much everything...

Recording Gear:

Desktop 2.4 ghz core 2 duo w/ 4 gb ram
Soundblaster Audigy 2 ZS
Yamaha MG16/4 16-Input 4-Bus Mixer
Adobe Audition
Shure PG48

Guitars:

Gibson Explorer w/ EMG 81 & 85
ESP LTD EC-1000VB w/ EMG 81 & 60

Amps:

Vox AD100VT
Peavey Transtube 212 EFX

Pedals:

Digitech Metal Master
MXR 10-Band EQ
Dunlop 535Q Wah

That's pretty much it i think.

OK. Let me start off by saying when we're just playing together or writing stuff we really like our guitar tones and think they sound pretty good.

The problem is when we try and record the rhythm sounds like its in the other room and doesn't surround you - like listening through a cone or something and really nothing like when we're just jamming. We have the microphone placed about an inch or touching the grill and offset towards the edge of the speaker where it sounded best to us. I'm wondering if maybe the microphone isn't good enough for lots of distortion? For the song we're working on now, we tried recording two separate tracks (the riff has little harmonized bits in it) and making one pan left (80%) and one pan right (80%), and copy and pasting those two and making them pan 20% respectively. That really didn't make the drastic change we hoped for (think In Flames, Carcass, Arch Enemy, Metallica, etc...).

Also, we tried adding more mids to make it stand out better, but messing with EQ curves on the amp and on the computer just don't seem to be doing it. I know we won't be able to make our recordings sound as good any of those guys i mentioned earlier, but i'm really thinking we could do a whole lot better than we have right now. I'll try and upload an mp3 of our attempt at recording in a little bit so you all can hear it and judge from there. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Austin

edit:

Here's what we tried to record.

rapidshare.com/files/59668465/guitarmix1.zip.html

[splooiesir]

Could you post some MP3s of the problems you're experiencing? It would help us in helping you, IMO.

Hah, you did right before I said that.

[Dogman]

Originally Posted by StenTheAwesome

we tried recording two separate tracks (the riff has little harmonized bits in it) and making one pan left (80%) and one pan right (80%), and copy and pasting those two and making them pan 20% respectively. That really didn't make the drastic change we hoped for (think In Flames, Carcass, Arch Enemy, Metallica, etc...).

Instead of copying and pasting, try doing more takes, if you play really tight. The copy and paste will make it louder, and sounds will build up in the exact same spectrum. The tracks that are copied would need some sort of different sound, such as eq, delay, chorus, etc. to keep them from just making the tracks louder, and taking over, as they are panned closer to the center.

[legionserial]

I second that about copying and pasting. Play all the parts individually. It will sound much better. If you have 2 tracks exactly the same panned in different places, it will sound like one track panned somewhere between those 2. For example, if you take a mono recording, and don't pan it, it will appear to be dead centre. The signal is still coming from both the left speaker and the right speaker, but because it is the same signal it appears in between. Same goes for sending 1 of the same signal to each speaker. It's just going to sound like it's in the middle. If you them panned, say, 80% right and 20% right respectively, it's going to sound like it's just coming from roughly 50% right.

I'm wondering if maybe the microphone isn't good enough for lots of distortion?

You don't want to use lots of distortion for recording. You need a lot less than you think. You need just enough so that you can play what you are playing and no more. This will help keep things sounding tighter and cleaner and eliminate the fuzz that will build up from having lots of distorted tracks playing in the mix. I find that layering guitar tracks (ie 2 tracks right, 2 tracks left - all played separately, not cut and pasted) brings back some of the saturated sound you may want for death metal without adding too much of the aforementioned fuzz.

You say you really like your tones, but how do they sound recorded? Listen to what the mic is hearing. A lot of people like the sound of their amp, but aren't listening to it from the same angle as the microphone. Ie in front of the grill. In a lot of cases the sound will be coming from below you.

I play pretty much the same style of music, and one of the biggest things I learnt when I started recording was even though it sounds pretty good in the room with the mids scooped, don't scoop them for recording. You need those mids to cut through.

I personally have the Bass, Mid and Treble all set halfway. In the room the amp has a hell of a lot more bite than you'd want for death metal, but it is a lot clearer in the mix, and layering guitar tracks gives me more of the saturated sound I'm looking for without it become a fuzzfest.

All in all, set your amp/mic combination to what sounds good recorded, not what sounds good in the room. It may turn out that it sounds like crap in the room, but sounds great on tape (or hard drive or whatever).

Another trick you can do...and this applies to all tracks in a mix, whether they are guitar, bass, drumms or whatever, is to do a frequency sweep. Do a very narrow boost on a parametric EQ and sweep it across the frequency spectrum, looking for frequencies that honk out at you or are especially annoying. Then cut then to taste. I have found this useful in taking some of the excess fuzz off of the guitars for example.

Anyway, I digress...to summarize...

Don't scoop the mids
Turn down the distortion
Don't copy and paste
Listen to what your mic is hearing

Perhaps I'm telling you a bunch of stuff you already know, but I figured I'd throw my 2p's worth in. I'll have a listen to the clip tonight.

[StenTheAwesome]

This all sounds like really good advice thanks! I'm going to try again today and see what happens. So when you say record 4 individual tracks and pan them, you mean something like this.


Track 1 - Rhythm 1 - Pan Right 80%
Track 1 - Rhythm 1 - Pan Left 20%

Track 2 - Rhythm 2 - Pan Left 80%
Track 2 - Rhythm 2 - Pan Right 20%

Also we can get another microphone but it'll take like a week or two, do you think a pg48 will get the job done for metal?

[ssscientist]

Originally Posted by StenTheAwesome

do you think a pg48 will get the job done for metal?

No.

Go all the way, break open the piggy bank and fork out for an SM57.

It'll be a good investment both in the short run and the long run. If you decide that you're not interested in music anymore an SM57 will be worth most of what you paid for it on the used market --- not so a pg48.


.

[legionserial]

Originally Posted by StenTheAwesome

This all sounds like really good advice thanks! I'm going to try again today and see what happens. So when you say record 4 individual tracks and pan them, you mean something like this.


Track 1 - Rhythm 1 - Pan Right 80%
Track 1 - Rhythm 1 - Pan Left 20%

Track 2 - Rhythm 2 - Pan Left 80%
Track 2 - Rhythm 2 - Pan Right 20%

Yeah that'd work. Obviously if during mixing you feel that you want to change the panning a bit then do so. Just give the mix what you think it needs, it's all down to personal taste at the end of the day. The main point is that it's always good to record all the parts rather than cutting and pasting. It makes a huge difference.

And +1 on the SM57. If you can afford it, get one.

[Rick01826]

I agree on the 57, if you can afford it get it. Also on copy and pasting....what I like to do is offset the copied track by 8 - 10 miliseconds. Kinda adds some fullness. You can go more but when you get into 20 miliseconds and up its just starting to delay.