mic for live acoustic guitar

[spinaltap]

hi people, great forum you got here.
i play in a band, we have 2 electroacoustics (steel) and percussion. we play some bossanova and flamenco, and i was trying to improve the guitars sound by adding mics besides the amplifier/line (have both)
i tried with an sm57 but it doesnt have enough gain so when i place it closer to the guitar it picks up too much bass tones. so i thought about buying a condenser or an specific dinamic. what about the behriger c-2 would they do the trick? or maybe the c-1.
as you can see the budget i low cause i gotta save money for other gear i need.
any help will be appreciated.

[Chili]

I am probably the least qualified to answer this question, but I'm going to try because I've also got a question for you.

Recording acoustic is not so easy, and takes lots of patience placing the mic. From this forum, I learned that you can get the best results by pointing to at the 12th fret at a 45 degree angle about 12 inches away. I think if you want to use a condenser, a small diameter might work better than a large diameter. If you're playing live, you might have a lot of feedback problems. Others can give you better advice than me.

But, I've been interested in learning flamenco style guitar. Got any suggestions for a book or place to learn??

Thanks,

[hairylarry]

Hi,

I love the K&K mics that install in the guitar. I have a Silvertone L5 with the f-hole. K&K was really my only option. They also sell kits for round hole guitars.

Using mics on acoustic guitar live is problematic. Especially if you need volume. The guitarist has to be more sensitive to the mic than a vocalist is. Each room is different and each note is different.

Now I'm not saying it couldn't work but I would be cautious about playing my acoustic through an amp and through a PA at the same time. Things might sound great where you stand but almost certainly there will be some places in the room where the guitar muddies up or loses frequency ranges.

It is difficult to get internal mics to sound as good as an acoustic guitar can. Recording I prefer mics to internal pickups although I have used internal pickups sometimes.

Live I always try to find some way to use an internal pickup and make it sound good.

Thanks,

Hairy Larry

[Lumpy]

Originally Posted by spinaltap

...i was trying to improve the guitars sound by adding mics besides the amplifier/line (have both)
i tried with an sm57 but it doesnt have enough gain so when i place it closer to the guitar it picks up too much bass tones...

Pick the spot(s) on the guitar where you want to mic. Have someone else play the instrument and you get your head down next to the guitar and slowly move around the body and the neck. Keep your ear maybe 6 inches from the guitar and you'll find nodes and sweet spots and null spots. Mic or don't mic those spots as you feel appropriate.

To add air to an acoustic, I typically point a supercard at the 12th fret.

In the studio it might be totally different. I might hang a mic 3 feet above the head of the player or set a mic 6 feet behind the player.

I find that just simply experimenting reveals some groovy options that I may have never thought of if I didn't have the guitar and the mics right there in front of me.


Lumpy

Can you play country music?
Sure. Which country would you like?

www.lumpymusic.org

[cusebassman]

For live use? Its tough. Obviously it isn't impossible, as acoustic players have been playing acoustics on stage with nothing but a microphone since the technology was invented... Some acoustics had magnetic pickups installed a long time ago, but how long has piezo technology been around and actively used in acoustics for live use? The last 40 years tops?

I couldn't begin to recommend a mic though, as every time I try to do this very same thing, the maximum output of the mic through the PA is inaudible compared to the rest of the music, the piezo output of the guitar itself, and the vocals, if you set it so it doesn't feedback.

For what its worth though, I was using my Shure SM81 on stage to couple with the magnetic soundhole pickup I use through an amp, and it sounded good on the recording, but did basically nothing for the PA sound.

[spinaltap]

thank you guys for the tips.
i've also been using the guitar (applause ae136) direct on the console and through a pair of EV speakers, and with a good eq i like the sound better than through the amp. so volume inst a problem but i was thinking how to get a richer sound adding a mic to the guitar.
i think im gonna borrow some mics and try the best way to achieve this then i'll decide if it works for me or wich mic to buy.
again thank you and forgive me if my spelling isn't great, couse english's not my first language

[sound125]

Originally Posted by spinaltap

hi people, great forum you got here.
i play in a band, we have 2 electroacoustics (steel) and percussion. we play some bossanova and flamenco, and i was trying to improve the guitars sound by adding mics besides the amplifier/line (have both)
i tried with an sm57 but it doesnt have enough gain so when i place it closer to the guitar it picks up too much bass tones. so i thought about buying a condenser or an specific dinamic. what about the behriger c-2 would they do the trick? or maybe the c-1.
as you can see the budget i low cause i gotta save money for other gear i need.
any help will be appreciated.

My primary go to mic for acoustic sources in live recording applications is the SM81. If you're planning on doing a lot of flamenco style strumming with a nylon string, micing behind the bridge works well. The 81s also work amazingly well on percussion.

[spinaltap]

Originally Posted by sound125

My primary go to mic for acoustic sources in live recording applications is the SM81. If you're planning on doing a lot of flamenco style strumming with a nylon string, micing behind the bridge works well. The 81s also work amazingly well on percussion.

its a steel string, we play stuff from the al dimeola, john mclaughlin, paco de lucia trio and such, its not traditional flamenco actually but its sounds great anyway.

[spinaltap]

here's a video of a little jam we recorded at home, but there's a third guitar player and there's no percution. im the one to the right
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ax9E54IZ52Q

[sound125]

Originally Posted by spinaltap

its a steel string, we play stuff from the al dimeola, john mclaughlin, paco de lucia trio and such, its not traditional flamenco actually but its sounds great anyway.

For the acoustic steel string player doing the lead parts in the video, I would experiment with a LDC for some coloration and to fatten it up a bit. For the two rhythm guitars, I'd use the SM81s behind the bridge, or the C2s, if you're on a really tight budget. The C2, like the SM81, has a flat freq response and are somewhat smooth on the top end. They're also small mics, so they work well in tight places. Both these mics will work for you.

[rokinrandy]

Originally Posted by spinaltap

here's a video of a little jam we recorded at home, but there's a third guitar player and there's no percution. im the one to the right
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ax9E54IZ52Q

Insane ,looks fun .I wish i could find a couple guitarist to jam with like that

[SuperGeek]

I find I get good results with a Sennheiser E845