Recording horn section

[robin watson]

Drums, bass and keys done.

Overdubbing the following:

sax
tpt
trombone
gtr

vox last.

Mics available: Milab C96b, AKG C1000 (pair), Beyer M88, Sennheiser e604, SM57/58 (numerous), Rode NT5 (pair).

Sax melody lines will be done first, then tpt/trom will be done together.

Any suggestions for 1) a sax mic, and 2) tpt and tbn mics?

[robin watson]

By the way, the situation is a bit of a crap shoot as the only monitoring facilty is the headphones we are tracking with (AKG240). So time spent experimenting with different mics/confogurations is not really an option, more of a point and shoot situation.

Recording with a Mackie 1602 to an HD24.

[virtualvisions]

e604 works well for trumpet.

A 57 would probably work on a trombone, but I've only heard it live as a solo mic, so I don't know about how it would sound in a mix.

I'd go ahead and try that M88 on sax, maybe blended with a 57 as well (rec 2 tracks, mix to taste).

Stay away from the C1000s!! They will sound ultra-harsh and brittle on horns.

[Han]

Originally Posted by virtualvisions

e604 works well for trumpet.

A 57 would probably work on a trombone, but I've only heard it live as a solo mic, so I don't know about how it would sound in a mix.

I'd go ahead and try that M88 on sax, maybe blended with a 57 as well (rec 2 tracks, mix to taste).

Stay away from the C1000s!! They will sound ultra-harsh and brittle on horns.

Wrong, the C1000 wil sound a lot smoother on the sax than the M88 which is a vocal hyper cardioid mic with mucho proximity. And since the saxophone needs a microphone at some distance, the C1000 is a much better choice.

The M88 is a great mic and the C1000 isn't as great as the M88, but nevertheless it will do better on sax. And guess what, the C1000 will do pretty good on trumpet as well, aim it a little off the trumpet's axis.

[Juggernaut]

Originally Posted by Han

Wrong, the C1000 wil sound a lot smoother on the sax than the M88 which is a vocal hyper cardioid mic with mucho proximity. And since the saxophone needs a microphone at some distance, the C1000 is a much better choice.

The M88 is a great mic and the C1000 isn't as great as the M88, but nevertheless it will do better on sax. And guess what, the C1000 will do pretty good on trumpet as well, aim it a little off the trumpet's axis.

What?

You are right that a hyper cardioid mic will have more proximaty effect, but that has nothing to do with smoothness or harshness.

To answer the question, find a good room, arrange the musicians in the stereo field the way you want and capture that with the NT5s in ORTF then I would put a dynamic of some kind up closeish for some presence.

>>AG

[Han]

But, the M88 is a pretty hot sounding mic and the C1000 can sound pretty smooth with some (hi end) EQ.

So?

[virtualvisions]

Originally Posted by Han

Wrong, the C1000 wil sound a lot smoother on the sax than the M88 which is a vocal hyper cardioid mic with mucho proximity. And since the saxophone needs a microphone at some distance, the C1000 is a much better choice.

The M88 is a great mic and the C1000 isn't as great as the M88, but nevertheless it will do better on sax. And guess what, the C1000 will do pretty good on trumpet as well, aim it a little off the trumpet's axis.

The only way you'll get mucho proximity is if you stick the bell of the sax straight into the mic, which is, not really best way to record a sax anyways. Much of the sound comes from the keys as well as the horn. I was suggesting blending the M88 with a 57, maybe having the 57 a couple inches over the horn, and the M88 on the side facing the keys or something along those lines.
When it comes to woodwind instruments, there are endless possibilities, and what it comes down to is you need to try a bunch of things, and pick what you like.

[Han]

Proximity works both ways, at some distance the mic will sound thin. I've had pretty good results with the C1000 on winds before I sold them.

Bashing the C1000 seems popular on forums but they're not that bad. I've had two C1000's which I've used often. I have but one SM57 which is gathering dust and never gets used.

[dgatwood]

Too bad you don't have a ribbon mic. That's what I'd recommend for horns. If you want a cheap one, I've had reasonably good luck with my RSM-2 with a touch of shelving boost in the highs, and you can get the same motor in a different housing for $80:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/produ...7&src=3SOSWXXA

That said, I'd probably spring for their improved version with the 2 micron ribbon instead and skip the EQ:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/produ...1&src=3SOSWXXA

[robin watson]

Thanks for the pointers, everyone. They ended up just laying down scratch tracks just to finalize individual lines and phrasing, which they did together, so I just threw up an SM57 on each, which kept them fairly isolated and therefore easy to differentiate for nit picking harmonies. The trumpet sounded way too thin (requiring a substantial amount of low mids to bring back some tone), sax wasn't bad, a bit flat and lacking that emotional detail like breathiness and keying noise; trombone sounded fine to me.

The Milab is a high quality mic, and I was suprised no one suggested it for any one application. The e604 suggestion got me thinking - I have read somewhere that it shares the same capsule as the highly regarded MD421. The C1000 does get a bad rap, but I've had good results with steel guitar, prefering it to the way more costly Milab in that instance. The M88 I was considering for sax based on something I'd read, but it does seem to me that a condenser mic is really the tool for the job if I'm to capture the instrument in its entirety.

These guys are very good players, especially the sax, so am doing my damnest to present them with a good recording. So far so good with the drums, bass and keys, so I'm halfway there.

Thanks again for all the suggestions; with so many options, it was a bit daunting, but your replies have given me a bit of focus to go with.

Cheers,
Robin.

[giraffe]

i use the 6o4 on bone a lot, and like.

(better late then never?)

[robin watson]

Originally Posted by giraffe

i use the 6o4 on bone a lot, and like.

(better late then never?)

THANKS. There will be more bone recording this Saturday, this time at mine, so I have better monitoring. Will give it a go.

Appreciated.

[fraserhutch]

Originally Posted by robin watson

THANKS. There will be more bone recording this Saturday, this time at mine, so I have better monitoring. Will give it a go.

Appreciated.

Better bone up on techniques then!

[robin watson]

Originally Posted by fraserhutch

Better bone up on techniques then!

Er, yeah...