this is interesting for anyone religious or 9/11 critics

[mystasynasta]

http://zeitgeistmovie.com/

thought id post it.

my brother got me into watching it after bugging me for about a week. i'm really interested in what people think of it.

i guess what i'm really looking for is evidence to prove the movie wrong...

anyways, its long. it cover religion and the bible in the first part, 9/11 in the second part and i havent watched the third part.

[swatsds]

it's interesting

[Slowrider]

People HAVE to have someone else to believe in. To me there are NO religions, period.

The Pope is the greatest corporation in the world. All religions were created by mans inability to believe in himself.

Man is God and Satan. When you find yourself, you no longer have to make up a Phony, Powerful being.

Think about that for a second; you no longer will be expected to be part of a support group.

You will be a true freethinker, something we are severely lacking.

[swatsds]

Originally Posted by Slowrider

People HAVE to have someone else to believe in. To me there are NO religions, period.

The Pope is the greatest corporation in the world. All religions were created by mans inability to believe in himself.

Man is God and Satan. When you find yourself, you no longer have to make up a Phony, Powerful being.

Think about that for a second; you no longer will be expected to be part of a support group.

You will be a true freethinker, something we are severely lacking.

I don't see any aspect of popular religion that strays from self empowerment . . . except maybe the "Oh, God, we are unworthy, you are King of Kings, I'm a sinner that needs forgiveness" crying, waving arms in the air part.

[Cyrokk]

Originally Posted by mystasynasta

i guess what i'm really looking for is evidence to prove the movie wrong...

Most of the claims made are one-sided stretches of the truth.

Some examples:

-While it is true that what we celebrate religiously was consolidated into pagan rituals by Constantine to appease the citizens, and while many of those pagan beliefs are strongly based in astrology, the claim that it is "widely believed" that Jesus never existed is a huge overstatement. The claim certainly had its merits, but not many people believe it, and the writings of Josephus et al are not in adamant dispute.

-The cross of the Christian church could conceivably be a coincidental adaptation of the southern cross, but crucifixion was a very real execution style of the Romans, and anyone physically calling into question Roman authority was persecuted by crucifixion.

-While true, Prescott Bush had some stake in Union Banking Corporation, to say he had strong ties to the Nazis when he was a director with only one share in UBC when the assets were seized isn't strong grounds, especially since in that time it wasn't uncommon for businesses to have some ties to the early Nazi movement. While no one today remotely condones the idea of Nazism, people tend to forget that the American Nazism movement was fairly entrenched up to American's somewhat late involvement in the war and the enactment of the "Trading With the Enemy Act"

-IIRC the movie states as fact that both incidents in the Gulf of Tonkin were staged. That's not fact, but high allegation. Yes, the second attack most likely did not occur, but there is still a large degree of disagreement over the first attack. If the allegation of the first attack is in that much dispute, then the movie shouldn't use that as proof that American government provokes a war and lies to us so that we can throw our support to engage in combat in order to pay for the interest charged by the Federal Reserve for issuing money.

-And speaking of the Federal Reserve, the movie maintains it is a private organization. That's not entirely true either. A search in Wikipedia indicates that it is part private, part public.

The conclusion here is that you should ALWAYS think for yourself and do your own research, even when the documentary you are watching is trying to make that point for you by stretching its own truths.

[Dragon]

Originally Posted by Cyrokk

The conclusion here is that you should ALWAYS think for yourself and do your own research, even when the documentary you are watching is trying to make that point for you by stretching its own truths.

Especially when it's a Michael Moore movie.

[mystasynasta]

While I don't get that deeply involved in things like conspiracy theories and things like that, I found this very interesting. Despite the incorrect or rather biased information represented in the film, I feel like it still had some strong points in it. I personally don't believe in religion, but I believe there is a higher power that some people may call a god. With so many different religions in this world, who's to say what's right? And if there is a god, isn't it a little conceited to ask people to worship you? I don't ask any of these questions to stir up religious debates but to me it's hard to believe what some people believe in. I do sound for an apostolic church on Sundays and people walk by me speaking in tongues and it just makes me think how foolish it is. I don't know, maybe I need Jesus in my life to really understand.

Thank you Cyrokk for your very informative post. You seem to have done your research and know your stuff. I am not that informed and a lot of the movie I had to research to really understand (I was always bad in social studies, world history, politics, government etc...).

[swatsds]

What the film shed light on for me, was the federal reserve and the impending North American Union.
To satiate my curiosity of an impending abandonment of the consititution, of course, I looked at these things further on my own.