Hey, mshilarious! New Product Idea!

[apl]

Let's collaborate!

I really need a pair of voices-in-my-head cancelling headphones!

I'll be glad to buy the parts and be the crash test dummy if you'd figure out how to rig them up.

[mshilarious]

It's already been invented; it's called a bottle of tequila

[notCardio]

That just makes them louder!

[mshilarious]

Originally Posted by notCardio

That just makes them louder!

No, it makes them sound like they are outside your head. And if you eat the worm, they are different voices

[apl]

Now that you mention it, the acid helped.

[vadoom]

Well, some people use this remedy... hummm, let me remember... oh, yeah, its called a gun. All you do is just shoot the voices. I'm told it works really good...

[The Ghost of FM]

Originally Posted by vadoom

Well, some people use this remedy... hummm, let me remember... oh, yeah, its called a gun. All you do is just shoot the voices. I'm told it works really good...

That wouldn't actually work because you'd die with a tormented soul and end up as an angry apparition for all of eternity.

Cheers!

[vadoom]

Originally Posted by The Ghost of FM

That wouldn't actually work because you'd die with a tormented soul and end up as an angry apparition for all of eternity.

Cheers!

But then the voices should stop, right?

[The Ghost of FM]

Originally Posted by vadoom

But then the voices should stop, right?

We need to continue this in my brand new super duper thread I just started!

Cheers!

[vadoom]

Originally Posted by apl

Let's collaborate!

I really need a pair of voices-in-my-head cancelling headphones!

I'll be glad to buy the parts and be the crash test dummy if you'd figure out how to rig them up.

OK, lets come at this from a different angle...

Have all the parts of your brain that have voices surgically cut out. Even if you end up in a coma.

This is such a morbid idea...

[kojdogg]

mshilarious-- here's one i'd actually love to see-- a passive (as transparent as possible) high pass in-line filter built into a neutrik connector like your pads or phase reverse thingy. i've noticed that oktava now makes one for their mk-012.
it might be popular with folks who use api 500 series pres-- most of which don't have highpass filters (aka lo cut buttons). i know i'd order a pair

[vadoom]

Originally Posted by kojdogg

mshilarious-- here's one i'd actually love to see-- a passive (as transparent as possible) high pass in-line filter built into a neutrik connector like your pads or phase reverse thingy. i've noticed that oktava now makes one for their mk-012.
it might be popular with folks who use api 500 series pres-- most of which don't have highpass filters (aka lo cut buttons). i know i'd order a pair

And that's supposed to make the voices in your head go away? I think you'd need a flux capacitor in there somewhere...

[mshilarious]

Originally Posted by kojdogg

mshilarious-- here's one i'd actually love to see-- a passive (as transparent as possible) high pass in-line filter built into a neutrik connector like your pads or phase reverse thingy. i've noticed that oktava now makes one for their mk-012.
it might be popular with folks who use api 500 series pres-- most of which don't have highpass filters (aka lo cut buttons). i know i'd order a pair

I haven't seen the Oktava device; are you sure it's passive?

It can be done, at least if you're happy with 6dB/octave (mainly because of space), and the big caveat; ideally it has to be customized for your preamp. That's because you specified a passive device, which means you can't buffer the filter from the input impedance of the preamp. So you'd have to select the capacitor value for the desired corner frequency given the input impedance of the preamp. You can kinda sorta get around that if you don't mind padding the whole signal; then you can drop the impedance of the filter circuit low without loading down the mic.

The second problem is a series capacitor will block phantom power. You can get around that with a bypass resistor, but that will create a shelving filter rather than a rolloff. How low the shelf is depends on the value of the resistor; higher values are lower shelves, but they also soak up more of the phantom you are trying to pass.

There is probably a reasonable compromise for all those issues, but as you can see, transparency goes out the window fairly quickly.

Anyway, if you're interested, email me. I might bang one out for the MSH-1 as it is happy with very little power. Other condensers, I dunno. Anything with a low current rating (3mA or so) should be OK, I would think.

Actually I am hoping to add an internal low cut on the MSH-2 for 2008 . . . and lately I've been playing with mini-transformers. Those guys are really fun; I'm going to do a few more transformer products

[vadoom]

Originally Posted by mshilarious

I haven't seen the Oktava device; are you sure it's passive?

It can be done, at least if you're happy with 6dB/octave (mainly because of space), and the big caveat; ideally it has to be customized for your preamp. That's because you specified a passive device, which means you can't buffer the filter from the input impedance of the preamp. So you'd have to select the capacitor value for the desired corner frequency given the input impedance of the preamp. You can kinda sorta get around that if you don't mind padding the whole signal; then you can drop the impedance of the filter circuit low without loading down the mic.

The second problem is a series capacitor will block phantom power. You can get around that with a bypass resistor, but that will create a shelving filter rather than a rolloff. How low the shelf is depends on the value of the resistor; higher values are lower shelves, but they also soak up more of the phantom you are trying to pass.

There is probably a reasonable compromise for all those issues, but as you can see, transparency goes out the window fairly quickly.

Anyway, if you're interested, email me. I might bang one out for the MSH-1 as it is happy with very little power. Other condensers, I dunno. Anything with a low current rating (3mA or so) should be OK, I would think.

Actually I am hoping to add an internal low cut on the MSH-2 for 2008 . . . and lately I've been playing with mini-transformers. Those guys are really fun; I'm going to do a few more transformer products

So how does this supposed to help poor lad who had complained about voices in his head????

[apl]

Originally Posted by vadoom

So how does this supposed to help poor lad who had complained about voices in his head????

Who's complaining? I just wanna hear some music over them once in a while.

[kojdogg]

Originally Posted by mshilarious

I haven't seen the Oktava device; are you sure it's passive?

It can be done, at least if you're happy with 6dB/octave (mainly because of space), and the big caveat; ideally it has to be customized for your preamp. That's because you specified a passive device, which means you can't buffer the filter from the input impedance of the preamp. So you'd have to select the capacitor value for the desired corner frequency given the input impedance of the preamp. You can kinda sorta get around that if you don't mind padding the whole signal; then you can drop the impedance of the filter circuit low without loading down the mic.

The second problem is a series capacitor will block phantom power. You can get around that with a bypass resistor, but that will create a shelving filter rather than a rolloff. How low the shelf is depends on the value of the resistor; higher values are lower shelves, but they also soak up more of the phantom you are trying to pass.

There is probably a reasonable compromise for all those issues, but as you can see, transparency goes out the window fairly quickly.

Anyway, if you're interested, email me. I might bang one out for the MSH-1 as it is happy with very little power. Other condensers, I dunno. Anything with a low current rating (3mA or so) should be OK, I would think.

Actually I am hoping to add an internal low cut on the MSH-2 for 2008 . . . and lately I've been playing with mini-transformers. Those guys are really fun; I'm going to do a few more transformer products

awesome-- i guess it won't work and i'm going to bet that you're right about the non-passive nature of the oktavas. wishful thinking i suppose. it's built into the same housing as the -10db pads that come with the mk-012's-- i just noticed some places selling them individually or packaged with the mk-012's.

what about a pad that gets patched in between the last analog piece of your chain and your a/d converter/interface?

incidentally-- those analog summing cables look awesome! i may very well pick some of those up.

[mshilarious]

Originally Posted by kojdogg

awesome-- i guess it won't work and i'm going to bet that you're right about the non-passive nature of the oktavas. wishful thinking i suppose. it's built into the same housing as the -10db pads that come with the mk-012's-- i just noticed some places selling them individually or packaged with the mk-012's.

I kicked it around in a model for a while; the best I could do was about an overall -6dB pad with a -3dB corner (really -9dB) at 80Hz, and only about -3dB/octave below that. Not very acceptable. BUT as I said, if you wanted it customized for a fixed input impedance, that is more doable.

what about a pad that gets patched in between the last analog piece of your chain and your a/d converter/interface?

Sure, or do it in software. Unless there is really heavy bass content clipping your preamp/converter, then you need the rolloff in front of it. Also if it is triggering a compressor, and I suppose a few reasons I haven't thought of.

It's less troublesome to design a line-level low cut filter since you generally don't have to worry about the driving capability of the source, and the following impedance should be nice and high . . . you can therefore use smaller capacitors, maybe even polys . . .

incidentally-- those analog summing cables look awesome! i may very well pick some of those up.

I have to say, I am pretty embarassed at charging money to put resistors in a cable, but other people don't seem embarassed by charging five times as much to put them in a box (OK, with pretty switches, etc) . . . and then you'd still need to buy the cables!

[dgatwood]

Originally Posted by mshilarious

I kicked it around in a model for a while; the best I could do was about an overall -6dB pad with a -3dB corner (really -9dB) at 80Hz, and only about -3dB/octave below that. Not very acceptable. BUT as I said, if you wanted it customized for a fixed input impedance, that is more doable.

How about just a notch filter at 50/60 Hz for all those folks too cheap to fix their wiring.

[mshilarious]

Originally Posted by dgatwood

How about just a notch filter at 50/60 Hz for all those folks too cheap to fix their wiring.

Unfortunately it's the harmonics that are troublesome!

[kojdogg]

Originally Posted by mshilarious

...Sure, or do it in software. Unless there is really heavy bass content clipping your preamp/converter, then you need the rolloff in front of it. Also if it is triggering a compressor, and I suppose a few reasons I haven't thought of...

yeah the primary reason i'm asking is a preamp in front of a compressor. i am down to two sets of pres-- the ones built into a langevin dvc, which have low cuts (well basically switchable frequency shelving eq's) and two a-design p-1 (500 series) which don't. none of my mics have high pass filters. the a-designs sound great and have great bass response, which is nice, but i'd like to use the elop limiter in the dvc (and/or my gyraf 1176). you can input directly into the limiter in of the dvc, but it bypasses the eq as well as the pre and i think the limiter is getting a little over-triggered by the bass response, or it would at least be nice to cut the low frequencies a bit.

[kojdogg]

Originally Posted by mshilarious

...
I have to say, I am pretty embarassed at charging money to put resistors in a cable, but other people don't seem embarassed by charging five times as much to put them in a box (OK, with pretty switches, etc) . . . and then you'd still need to buy the cables!

Also, does your method require make-up gain (i.e. running the summed XLR outputs to pres then to the A/D)? That would be cool.

edit-- I see; you need to use either a BTA or some inline pads if you want to run them into mic pres? So, if you were summing four stereo stems/busses, you'd need two Mix-4's, which could be run directly into a converter (with an XLR to TRS cable or adapter if required) and if you wanted to run the Mix-4's into mic pres to color the sound, you'd need either the BTA's or a pair of 12dB pads. Is there a loss of fidelity or increased noise by doing that? It sounds like the BTA might be less noisy?

[dgatwood]

Originally Posted by mshilarious

Unfortunately it's the harmonics that are troublesome!

True. True.

[SRR]

Originally Posted by apl

Let's collaborate!

I really need a pair of voices-in-my-head cancelling headphones!

I'll be glad to buy the parts and be the crash test dummy if you'd figure out how to rig them up.

Geodon, worked for me, and I am serious.

[mshilarious]

Originally Posted by kojdogg

Also, does your method require make-up gain (i.e. running the summed XLR outputs to pres then to the A/D)? That would be cool.

Any passive summing network loss will be dB=20*log(1/n), where n is number of channels. Whether or not makeup gain is required depends on your setup. With 4 channels, the loss is -12dB, so for example I can run my D/A at +4dBu, and A/D at -10dBV, and no makeup is required. Also if you are running into a compressor, it shouldn't be an issue.

edit-- I see; you need to use either a BTA or some inline pads if you want to run them into mic pres?

Maybe; depends on the pre's ability to take high levels. But I wouldn't select a transformer over a pad unless you want the transformer's sound (and it will muck with your audio a bit, it is not transparent nor intended to be), or unless you are doing a balanced/unbalanced conversion.

So, if you were summing four stereo stems/busses, you'd need two Mix-4's, which could be run directly into a converter (with an XLR to TRS cable or adapter if required)

If you have 8 channels of D/A, one thing to consider is whether you want to run 4 stereo stems or 8 mono stems, and do left and right separately. If you are strictly doing summing, or even going to a mic preamp, you should be able to sample-align left and right sums done individually. If you are going to a stereo-linked compressor, obviously that doesn't work as well.

and if you wanted to run the Mix-4's into mic pres to color the sound, you'd need either the BTA's or a pair of 12dB pads. Is there a loss of fidelity or increased noise by doing that? It sounds like the BTA might be less noisy?

If you add more stems, then you have greater network loss (24dB for eight channels), and that might low be enough to feed the preamp.

With passive devices the only noise is thermal, which is down in the -130dBV range. You can also pick up some transmission line noise, and of course the self-noise of the outboard gear (you should be hitting it pretty hot though) but I presume these are the desired qualities of OTB summing

[mshilarious]

Presenting my latest product, the MDF-1 mshilarious Dog Frightener, v1!

A friend has a dog that keeps getting in their trash, so they wanted a loud noise they could operate remotely. At first I figured they wanted some sort of motion detector or something, but no, they were happy triggering it manually.

So I built this thing to connect to a 2-way radio. Basically when you send a signal, like the call button, this thing triggers. I used two buzzers, 3kHz and 3.5kHz, and best of all, I didn't bother to rectify or filter the incoming signal, so you get the half-rectified amplitude of the incoming signal as a combination 3kHz and 3.5kHz tone. It sounds like ASS