Recording Clean Tube Amps

[Nick The Man]

My buddy just bought a nice Fender tube amp, sounds great. I've heard quite a few solid state Fenders and liked those but this tops them all. I wanna record this thing to its full potential.

What kind of means do you go through to get that perfect clean tone/recording?

I have 57s, e609, AT4050, things like that to capture it with.

I usually just use a 57 on amps, but i figured theres some unique things that everyone does to capture their amps. What do ya got?

[TexRoadkill]

Same as any amp. Move the mics around until it sounds interesting. I'll usually use a 57 or ribbon up close and a condensor or ribbon out in the room.

[Seafroggys]

I have a tube Music Man amp I've been recording with. I've only used my Audix i5 on it, haven't needed to use my 57 yet, but it gets great results.

[Track Rat]

Tex said it all. I've come to realize in my old age that just about any mic can do a great job at capturing sound. The one's that sound brilliant, you just have to experiment. That said, I'd try the 4050.

[mrhotapples]

Screw my post. I didn't like it. I change it!

if you play good, the amp sounds good...Start with your SM57 on the sweet spot of one of the speakers you're pumping that baby through. If you really need more than that, take your best condenser and...Don't shoot me...Mic the strings of the guitar.

This sounds BADASS if you are playing harder. You'll get the amp in this mic too. Creates a very detaild picture of the guitar's sound.

[Nick The Man]

Originally Posted by mrhotapples

Screw my post. I didn't like it. I change it!

if you play good, the amp sounds good...Start with your SM57 on the sweet spot of one of the speakers you're pumping that baby through. If you really need more than that, take your best condenser and...Don't shoot me...Mic the strings of the guitar.

This sounds BADASS if you are playing harder. You'll get the amp in this mic too. Creates a very detaild picture of the guitar's sound.

REALLY. Mic the strings? I have honestly never even heard of doing this, seems like it would give a pretty undesirable sound.

[Track Rat]

Lou Reed used to do it.

[The Axis]

Using any of your mikes (SM57 would be my first choice) just try different positions and angles of the mike relative to the speaker cabinet (an individual speaker). It is ammazing how the sound field right in front of a speaker varies ! I ended up liking having the mike lightly touching the grill cloth, about 2" off center of one speaker cone, and pointed directly perpendicular to the speaker (not looking towards the center of the cone).

The point here is just experiment while listening. I personally would avoid the complicated two-mike setups, because they invariably cause some comb-filter effects.....but even those sound "good" at times.

Another tactic: if you want to capture a great sound just like it sounds to your ears, set a stereo pair of small condenser mikes at about the level and spacing of your own head and ears. This might cause "bleed" difficulties if other instruments are playing at the same time, but works great for solo playing.

[mrface2112]

yep, mic the strings. works real nice on a hollowbody--gives a bit of a sheen to the sound. also works real well on any electric that's got halfway decent resonance to it.

everyone else has already addressed the amp......listen via headphones while he plays, move the mic around and stick it where it sounds the most desirable. any of those 3 mics should kick out a perfectly acceptable guitar track.


cheers,
wade

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by Nick The Man

REALLY. Mic the strings? I have honestly never even heard of doing this, seems like it would give a pretty undesirable sound.

I've never done that, but I remember reading about somebody big - Mark Knopfler maybe - who does that.

[mrhotapples]

I do it. I'm not anybody big, but I am getting to the point of always doing it for clean guitars. If you process it right and set it in low, it adds a really nice acoustic quality to any electric stringed instrument. It's nice on bass for certain genres too. Parallel compression of bass strings + bass amp/di on a fast punk song or a pop/slap style player...NICE. Give it a try.

[Ironklad Audio]

another trick that can help out, if you don't want to mic the strings, is to take a clean DI track and mix it in below the tracks that came off of the amp

Cardiod condenser mic like an AT in close proximity and slightly pointed away from center of the speaker worked really well for me.

[mrhotapples]

I want to emphasize not just pointing the mic at a certain part of the speaker. You'll save yourself a lot of trial and error by having the amp set up at a low volume with good iso headphones on and moving the mic around and finding a spot that jumps out at you. Some speakers are way too bright to go anywhere near the center of the cone, some way too dull to do anything but jam them into the center. This way you can figure out where a specific speaker's sweet spot is and automatically go there to begin with on every session.

[Nick The Man]

Originally Posted by danny.guitar

Cardiod condenser mic like an AT in close proximity and slightly pointed away from center of the speaker worked really well for me.

Is it bad to record loud sources with mics that don't have very high SPL levels? I feel like i remember reading about people damaging the diaphram when recording loud sources with condensors.

[Nick The Man]

Originally Posted by mrhotapples

I want to emphasize not just pointing the mic at a certain part of the speaker. You'll save yourself a lot of trial and error by having the amp set up at a low volume with good iso headphones on and moving the mic around and finding a spot that jumps out at you. Some speakers are way too bright to go anywhere near the center of the cone, some way too dull to do anything but jam them into the center. This way you can figure out where a specific speaker's sweet spot is and automatically go there to begin with on every session.

Yeah i could really use a nice pair of iso cans, I never really focused on buying anything real nice when it comes to my headphone department. Shit I only have AKG K44's, pretty much as cheap as they come, they get the job done. I don't think they are the best with isolation but I'll have to try this idea because trial and error is kind of a bitch.

[Nick The Man]

Originally Posted by mrhotapples

I do it. I'm not anybody big, but I am getting to the point of always doing it for clean guitars. If you process it right and set it in low, it adds a really nice acoustic quality to any electric stringed instrument. It's nice on bass for certain genres too. Parallel compression of bass strings + bass amp/di on a fast punk song or a pop/slap style player...NICE. Give it a try.

Sounds pretty cool, what kind of guitars do you use. Do you think it would sound appropriate with Strats? Do you have any sample you can post?

[Guitarer]

Originally Posted by jfrog

I've never done that, but I remember reading about somebody big - Mark Knopfler maybe - who does that.

I've heard it from a few bands. I believe Finger Eleven's done it.

[Nick The Man]

I'm about to hit buy on those Direct Sound Extreme Isolation headphones. Any thoughts before I add them to my cart and do the deed?

[mrhotapples]

Here's the only immediately available sample of this tecnique I have. The guitar was a semihollow dot/es335 kinda guitar with old ass strings, bass is a standard fender jazz bass. Both were miced at the 12th fret with a CAD m177 and DI into a Firepod. I'm not proud of this recording. It's a guitarist a band I work with playing all of it.

Rate of Release

[IronFlippy]

If you have a decent room, try pulling the mic back a foot or two, and letting the room add to the sound. It gives a more relaxed feel to the track, instead of being in your face. Plus, it adds dimension to the song.

[Nick The Man]

Originally Posted by mrhotapples

Here's the only immediately available sample of this tecnique I have. The guitar was a semihollow dot/es335 kinda guitar with old ass strings, bass is a standard fender jazz bass. Both were miced at the 12th fret with a CAD m177 and DI into a Firepod. I'm not proud of this recording. It's a guitarist a band I work with playing all of it.

Rate of Release

Yeah, that sounds good, unique sound. I would be proud of that recording, the drums sound great if you ask me. Sounds like a tightly tuned set. Very cool!

[Ironklad Audio]

Is it bad to record loud sources with mics that don't have very high SPL levels? I feel like i remember reading about people damaging the diaphram when recording loud sources with condensors.

in all honesty, almost all mics made today will work on almost any source - the only real exclusion being ribbon mics...which are actually usually rated @ ridiculous SPL's, but need to stay away from anything that creates a large "puff", i.e. in the hole of a kick drum

i seriously can't remember the last "modern" mic that i've seen that couldn't handle at least 130db...which i REALLY doubt that any amp will hit with a clean tone - my 100w tube head into a 4x12 cab hits 127db when it's maxed out.

[Nick The Man]

Originally Posted by Ironklad Audio

in all honesty, almost all mics made today will work on almost any source - the only real exclusion being ribbon mics...which are actually usually rated @ ridiculous SPL's, but need to stay away from anything that creates a large "puff", i.e. in the hole of a kick drum

i seriously can't remember the last "modern" mic that i've seen that couldn't handle at least 130db...which i REALLY doubt that any amp will hit with a clean tone - my 100w tube head into a 4x12 cab hits 127db when it's maxed out.

Yeah, well thats good to know, thanks. With that said, what pattern do you think i should set the 4050? It has omni, 8, and cardioid. I'll try them all but what do you think would work best?

[TripleJ]

Depends on the sound you're going for. The cardiod will result in the most 'direct' sound and not much of a room sound. Figure 8 will start to involve the room a little more, and omni will capture the entire room as much as the amp. It's a matter of how it sounds, try it out, that's what this game is about!

You'll probably find you want to use Cardioid unless you have a fantastic room but that's not always the case.